Quote from: Speeddog on February 19, 2013, 03:34:51 PM
Nov 7th, 2010
2010 MotoGP Valencia race with Stoner on board, finishing 2nd, 4.5 sec behind Lorenzo, and 4.5 sec *ahead* of Rossi (on a Yamaha).

Nov 9th, 2010 Test Day 1
Rossi on the Ducati, 1.870 sec a lap behind Lorenzo, who posted fast time.

Nov 10th, 2010 Test day 2
Rossi on the Ducati, 1.695 sec a lap behind Stoner, who posted fast time.

Rossi was on the same bike as what Stoner just got off of, yes?

SO he got on a bike that was basically engineered for a specific rider over the previous few seasons and only managed 1.695 seconds off the pace on a bike he had never ridden before?

Yer right...what a whiny little pregnant dog.     

Quote from: ZILBERT on February 19, 2013, 01:41:51 PM
In general? We will never know now will we?

In general? we do KNOW.
The most succesfull "winning" motogp rider ever to grace gods green planet!! Giacomo Agostini with 122  GP wins. Guess who is right behind him.. and will surely surpass him within the next 3 years?  VALENTINO ROSSI with 105 wins.  Uhh did someone say Casey stoner (the retired WHINER), 45 wins.

uhh, i know whos the better overall rider.. actually hes more than twice as good, Valentino Rossi.

Quote from: ZILBERT on February 19, 2013, 06:32:55 PM
SO he got on a bike that was basically engineered for a specific rider over the previous few seasons and only managed 1.695 seconds off the pace on a bike he had never ridden before?

Yer right...what a whiny little pregnant dog.     

AND I could use the same argument for Stoner, he got on a bike engineered for Pedrosa, that he hadn't ridden before, and came in second to Lorenzo on the first day (beating Pedrosa), then came first, beating Lorenzo (the 2010 Champion) by over a tenth of a second.

Pretty good for a guy who hadn't been on the bike before. 

This is an absurd comparison, put their career records side by side and Stoner's not even in the same league as Rossi.

Was Stoner simply the Ducati "Rain Man"?

WRT Agostini, he probably owes much of his success to having the best bike for a long time...racing was a lot different back in my day.

Quote from: OT on February 19, 2013, 08:55:10 PM
This is an absurd comparison, put their career records side by side and Stoner's not even in the same league as Rossi.

Was Stoner simply the Ducati "Rain Man"?

WRT Agostini, he probably owes much of his success to having the best bike for a long time...racing was a lot different back in my day.

Comparing Rossi to Ago is absurd as well. The Golden boy couldn't  race his bike to a win on his best day. 

Comparing Stoner to Rossi isn't absurd at all. Since Stoner entered MotoGP (2006):

Wins
Stoner - 38
Rossi - 26

Podiums
Stoner - 69
Rossi - 61

Titles
Stoner - 2
Rossi - 2

Like him or not, Stoner has been the best rider since he entered MotoGP. Nevermind the fact that he's the only guy that could ride the Duc, and that he was flat out dominant the second he sat on the Honda. He won't ever match Rossi's title count, but that doesn't mean a comparison isn't valid for the period he raced with him.

Quote from: OT on February 19, 2013, 08:55:10 PM
This is an absurd comparison, put their career records side by side and Stoner's not even in the same league as Rossi.

Was Stoner simply the Ducati "Rain Man"?

WRT Agostini, he probably owes much of his success to having the best bike for a long time...racing was a lot different back in my day.

The Ducati Rain Man, and the Honda Savior.

Sounds like Ago and Rossi had quite a bit in common, with always having the best bike. We just saw what Rossi could do on an inferior bike.

You Rossiphiles are funny. He's awesome, and probably the GOAT...but give Stoner credit where it's due. I don't think anyone is more happy about Stoner retiring than Rossi.

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2013/02/17/casey_stoner_to_race_three_wildcards_for.html

Quote from: OT on February 19, 2013, 09:37:53 PM

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2013/02/17/casey_stoner_to_race_three_wildcards_for.html

Quote* Editor's Note: the Twitter account (@Berncar1) which first broke the rumor of a Stoner wildcard has since been deleted.

Quote from: Triple J on February 19, 2013, 09:22:55 PM
Comparing Stoner to Rossi isn't absurd at all. Since Stoner entered MotoGP (2006):

Wins
Stoner - 38
Rossi - 26

Podiums
Stoner - 69
Rossi - 61

Titles
Stoner - 2
Rossi - 2

Like him or not, Stoner has been the best rider since he entered MotoGP. Nevermind the fact that he's the only guy that could ride the Duc, and that he was flat out dominant the second he sat on the Honda. He won't ever match Rossi's title count, but that doesn't mean a comparison isn't valid for the period he raced with him.

My point exactly. People seem to forget that I am a HUGE Rossi fanboy. But Casey, during his time in MotoGP was most definitely a threat to Rossi's dominance. Of course Vale was going to come out on top anyway but that doesn't mean Casey wasn't a flippin' beast in his own right.

Quote from: Triple J on February 19, 2013, 09:29:44 PM
The Ducati Rain Man, and the Honda Savior.

Sounds like Ago and Rossi had quite a bit in common, with always having the best bike. We just saw what Rossi could do on an inferior bike.

You Rossiphiles are funny. He's awesome, and probably the GOAT...but give Stoner credit where it's due. I don't think anyone is more happy about Stoner retiring than Rossi.

a good chunk of casey's advantage in the numbers came in 2007 when michelin couldn't build a tire to save their presence in motogp. rossi switched to bridgestone in 2008 and numbers evened out. in fact, michelins sucked so bad, they were completely kicked out the door by 2009.

it would've been really nice if casey had stuck around for 2013 with lorenzo/rossi/stoner all on "equal" equipment.

Quote from: Triple J on February 19, 2013, 09:29:44 PM
Sounds like Ago and Rossi had quite a bit in common, with always having the best bike. We just saw what Rossi could do on an inferior bike.

Yeah...Rossi can't do anything with an inferior bike. I mean look at all the titles Yamaha was winning in MotoGP before 2004...oh...wait... 

Quote from: derby on February 20, 2013, 05:23:41 AM
a good chunk of casey's advantage in the numbers came in 2007 when michelin couldn't build a tire to save their presence in motogp. rossi switched to bridgestone in 2008 and numbers evened out. in fact, michelins sucked so bad, they were completely kicked out the door by 2009.

it would've been really nice if casey had stuck around for 2013 with lorenzo/rossi/stoner all on "equal" equipment.

True in 2007, but that doesn't totally explain it. It isn't like Capirossi was consistently coming in second on the B'stones. A very large part of it was Stoner's ability. Also, his 2011 season was just as dominant when everyone was on the Bridgestones.

Agreed...would have been great to see them all on good bikes. Could have been an epic season for battles (still might be).

You guys are wasting your breathe. No Rossi fan will ever admit that any other human was better than him. Try as you may to show that when you compare apples to apples, Stoner was able to win on a bike that Rossi routinely brought in 6th or 7th place. Even when you attempt to go waaay back to the days with Yamaha when Stoner, again on an inferior machine, was able to give as good as he got with Rossi on a bike that was basically developed precisely for him. I guess we will never know how dominating Stoner could have been on the Honda as he was on his way to winning another title before he got hurt at Indy. Rossi can sleep well at night indeed.

Quote from: duccarlos on February 20, 2013, 12:07:08 PM
You guys are wasting your breathe. No Rossi fan will ever admit that any other human was better than him.

i'm a rossi fan and can admit that stoner did better on a ducati than rossi did, but...

Quote from: duccarlos on February 20, 2013, 12:07:08 PM
Try as you may to show that when you compare apples to apples, Stoner was able to win on a bike that Rossi routinely brought in 6th or 7th place.

...the "bike that Rossi routinely brought in 6th or 7th place" wasn't the same bike, save for two days in valencia at the end of 2010.

Quote from: duccarlos on February 20, 2013, 12:07:08 PM
Even when you attempt to go waaay back to the days with Yamaha when Stoner, again on an inferior machine...

...but superior tires in 2007...

Quote from: duccarlos on February 20, 2013, 12:07:08 PM
...was able to give as good as he got with Rossi on a bike that was basically developed precisely for him.

yes, stoner was able to "keep it close" once rossi got back on competitive tires in 2008.

Quote from: duccarlos on February 20, 2013, 12:07:08 PM
I guess we will never know how dominating Stoner could have been on the Honda as he was on his way to winning another title before he got hurt at Indy. Rossi can sleep well at night indeed.

and, like i said previously it would've been nice to have all the championship-capable guys on championship-capable machinery, instead of the "best" and "worst" factory bikes on the grid.