Tired old argument I know I am a noob to motorcycle riding and just wanted others thoughts on engine breaking, when its good to use if at all and the old argument of transmission vs brake pads etc.

Any advice on engine breaking, blipping etc would be much appreciated

Engine breaking is bad, engine braking not so bad. 

well their both spelled the same way for starters.
braking.

if you are a noob, hope you have a semi-slipper.

but practice first in a straight line in a parking lot, don't panic if you get chatter, just pull the clutch in more. 

you'll need to find the right RPM for each gear to make it smooth, and first starting slip your clutch more than usual to let it grab smoothly.

as you advance you'll be able to do it clutchless.

So, this is actually a more complicated topic than you might think.

Engine braking does slow you down, but also changes the chassis dynamics a good bit.

Under power, your chain is tight at the top. The puts some tension into the suspension. The effects of this very from bike to bike - rise up some, anti-squat, but most will skin down, squat. The pivot point of the rear swing arm as the points where the forces work around. The chain is running above the swing arm pivot point. When the chain it is pulling, it tries to squat the rear suspension more.

If you come off the throttle, to engine brake that tension on the top of the chain is eliminated or even transferred to the bottom side of the chain as the wheel is pulling on the counter sprocket. As you might expect, this has the opposite effect on the shock and leads to a reduction in the load on it. Generally, that's not an issue as the shock should be within its operating range. But it does change the geometry and where the engine forces are being applied.

If you're racing, for example, engine braking if held too late reduces the time that you can be at neutral/maintenance or positive throttle - which for the super humans means slower laps.

For us mortals, it more about the chassis dynamics and not upsetting them if you're transitioning from an engine braking situation to a positive throttle in a turn.

As noted, it's a skill on a bike, it's part of the throttle control wheelhouse. Not just something you should do without some thought (most of the time)

The brakes are for slowing down.

The engine is for going faster.

IMO engine braking is a bad habit almost all the time. On the street it means the people behind you don't know you're slowing because your brake lights aren't on. I do it sometimes, but always in conjunction with the brakes, and only when I'm coming up to a stoplight or something and am just being lazy. It has no place as a real tool for stopping/slowing IMO. [I also used to purposely dump the clutch when I didn't have a slipper to lock the rear coming to a stoplight...but that was a different issue, as I was just goofing off  ]

On the track engine braking has no place. It just makes you slower. The end.

Throttle blipping is a different issue. That is just rev matching so you don't lock up your rear wheel on a downshift. Different opinions on its use, but if you have a slipper then I personally don't think it is necessary. You can also just let the clutch out a little slower instead of blipping.

+100 on the last 2 responses 
faster is better

Quote from: Raux on April 02, 2013, 11:49:11 AM
+100 on the last 2 responses 
faster is better

agreed!

I engine brake for the fun of it sometimes.  love hearing the engine rev a bit coming to a stop, but that's mostly because my exhaust is kind of stupid loud  ...

Usually on the street when coming to a stop light i just down shift while braking, and braking with both brakes (primarily the front) if I'm slowing down slowly. If I want/need to stop quicker I almost exclusively use the front.

Watch some MotoGP clips (or opening day tomorrow in Qatar  ) and you'll see them, it seems like always, only using the front while their rear wheel just skims the track.

Those dudes are immortal, as mentioned above

Quote from: wiggsmeister on April 07, 2013, 01:13:46 AM
If I want/need to stop quicker I almost exclusively use the front.

Which is kinda dumb, seeing as how you stop sooner when you use both brakes.

Contrary to popular belief, the rear brake actually does something. It's not just decorative. Especially on Monsters, which have a relatively low CoG compared to other sport bikes.

As far as the OP is concerned, +11tyB to Raux and Slide Panda.

Quote from: Buckethead on April 07, 2013, 01:41:36 AM
Which is kinda dumb, seeing as how you stop sooner when you use both brakes.

Contrary to popular belief, the rear brake actually does something. It's not just decorative. Especially on Monsters, which have a relatively low CoG compared to other sport bikes.

As far as the OP is concerned, +11tyB to Raux and Slide Panda.

yyeeeaaa... I'm sure you're right. For whatever reason I'm more comfortable being harder on the brake when not using the rear.. I'm sure that'll change the longer I ride. Only have a little over 10k under my belt so far.

use both.

if you come from a dirt background the rear comes second nature and even forcing slides with it.

but gentle use of the rear in conjunction with the front will be the safest, fastest stopping.


have you taken the MSF course?

When the front brakes are properly applied under extreme braking the rear wheel leaves or nearly leaves the road surface.  The rear brake has a place at a high pace, but maximum braking ain't it.  When transitioning from off throttle to neutral throttle at tip-in a quick brush of the rear brake settles the suspension nicely.  It's also handy to tighten your line a bit after the apex.  Other than that, it can go make the beast with two backs itself.

I'm not immortal, but I have roadraced for twenty five years....if that's worth anything.

Quote from: Cloner on April 07, 2013, 07:47:29 AM
When the front brakes are properly applied under extreme braking the rear wheel leaves or nearly leaves the road surface.  The rear brake has a place at a high pace, but maximum braking ain't it.  When transitioning from off throttle to neutral throttle at tip-in a quick brush of the rear brake settles the suspension nicely.  It's also handy to tighten your line a bit after the apex.  Other than that, it can go make the beast with two backs itself.

I'm not immortal, but I have roadraced for twenty five years....if that's worth anything.

BUT unless you are at roadrace pace, the rear is a normal part or normal riding.

I'm with Cloner.

The rear brake has never done anything but gotten me in trouble.

I stay right away from it...street and track.

Quote from: ducpainter on April 07, 2013, 09:30:13 AM
I'm with Cloner.

The rear brake has never done anything but gotten me in trouble.

I stay right away from it...street and track.

+11tyb. The only time I ever use the rear is When I'm in the grass at the track.

Quote from: Raux on April 07, 2013, 03:29:02 AM
use both.

if you come from a dirt background the rear comes second nature and even forcing slides with it.

but gentle use of the rear in conjunction with the front will be the safest, fastest stopping.


have you taken the MSF course?

Yup I've taken the MSF course and I come from a dirt background. Getting used to using the front was odd bc I rarely used it on the dirt, but now, like I said, I almost exclusively use the front.