Quote from: Duck-Stew on June 07, 2013, 10:32:40 AM
Phil's is a '93 BTW...

thank you for the correction...to me 93/94 are the same brood with the bigger valve heads and all the goodness that was put in to them...

I think the best is a 2007 S4Rs, BUT... the S4Rt in Titanium/Greg with red trellis is the most beautiful.  So my perfect monster is the suspension of the S4Rs and the Titanium color combo of the S4Rt.

-Jim

Quote from: Duck-Stew on June 06, 2013, 03:34:54 PM
My vote:  2000-2001 M900Si.e.

Classic frame
EFI w/o immobilizer crap
dual sided swingarm
upgraded suspenders
dry-clutch

Quote from: koko64 on June 06, 2013, 04:17:58 PM
+1 (the 2000 model with rear Ohlins is the pick), thats voting with my head

This.


I'm not at all biased, either

Quote from: zooom on June 07, 2013, 08:31:41 AM
and a poll is not considered official or scientific on the DMF unless Boobies is an option

Oh yeah, of course! So the poll will obviously tell us what people are really thinking.

I love the discussion and agree with much of what has been said ... it does depend on your tastes, needs, wants and experiences. If the choice was scientific a poll may be appropriate but there is far too much emotion involved and opinion rules ... so stand by for a long-winded and non-committal response   

The Monster was originally conceived as a naked Superbike, so perhaps the Streetfighter is actually the best Monster being specifically designed as a naked Superbike. Conception aside however, the Monster was brought to market as a compromise ... and to me this is the essence of a Monster ... it is a parts bin bike which presents many options and varying compromises with a certain aesthetic appeal.

This is where the new-style Monsters lose out for me. They are 'more' purpose built and they lose some of the aesthetic appeal. The Monster's core aesthetic comes from the frame, integrated engine, the tank shape (and to some degree the headlight) ... purpose built ruins this core aesthetic changing design to a styling exercise. They may have been a chance if the rear sub-frame 'worked' aesthetically ... but Ducati have come to compromise the wrong areas.

So is the S4Rs the best Monster? Well, as it turns out, no. Because by the time it came to market the Monster had become much more urbane than a stripped naked Superbike, its identity was cast before the fridge-based Monsters came along and all that plumbing no longer fit the aesthetic ... and most of it was superfluous for the intent of the bike.

It is probably for this reason that I have long considered the S2R1000 as the ultimate evolution of the true Monster - air cooled simplicity (design and maintenance) with plenty of 'streetable' power and comprised of suitably compromised components (brakes, suspension, etc), a sprinkling of identifiable Ducati traits (single sided swingarm and dry clutch) and a full trellis with nothing to hide.

But it is a bit like choosing a favourite child, so I will elaborate further     with the experiences I have has with my own children ... back soon.

Quote from: Betty on June 07, 2013, 01:45:02 PM
Oh yeah, of course! So the poll will obviously tell us what people are really thinking.

I love the discussion and agree with much of what has been said ... it does depend on your tastes, needs, wants and experiences. If the choice was scientific a poll may be appropriate but there is far too much emotion involved and opinion rules ... so stand by for a long-winded and non-committal response  

The Monster was originally conceived as a naked Superbike, so perhaps the Streetfighter is actually the best Monster being specifically designed as a naked Superbike. Conception aside however, the Monster was brought to market as a compromise ... and to me this is the essence of a Monster ... it is a parts bin bike which presents many options and varying compromises with a certain aesthetic appeal.

This is where the new-style Monsters lose out for me. They are 'more' purpose built and they lose some of the aesthetic appeal. The Monster's core aesthetic comes from the frame, integrated engine, the tank shape (and to some degree the headlight) ... purpose built ruins this core aesthetic changing design to a styling exercise. They may have been a chance if the rear sub-frame 'worked' aesthetically ... but Ducati have come to compromise the wrong areas.

So is the S4Rs the best Monster? Well, as it turns out, no. Because by the time it came to market the Monster had become much more urbane than a stripped naked Superbike, its identity was cast before the fridge-based Monsters came along and all that plumbing no longer fit the aesthetic ... and most of it was superfluous for the intent of the bike.

It is probably for this reason that I have long considered the S2R1000 as the ultimate evolution of the true Monster - air cooled simplicity (design and maintenance) with plenty of 'streetable' power and comprised of suitably compromised components (brakes, suspension, etc), a sprinkling of identifiable Ducati traits (single sided swingarm and dry clutch) and a full trellis with nothing to hide.

But it is a bit like choosing a favourite child, so I will elaborate further     with the experiences I have has with my own children ... back soon.

Awesome response. I love the reasoning using the concept of the initial design and the evolution of the Monster. Very cool.

In case you were wondering we have three Monsters in the shed ... yes they are all FI, full trellis bikes ... and no, none of them are an S2R1000. But this doesn't mean I would swap any of them. The Boss has two (a 620 and an S4Rt) and I have an S2R800 ... not a bad spread of models - and like all children they have their own traits which make them special.

The 620 has all sorts of emotional pull but it is compact, feels small and light and its standard features (big brakes, steel tank, gearing) have been enhanced (adjustable suspension, a bit of noise) to make it even better. The 5-speed 'box without the APTC is a little limiting but it does provide a certain character. Certainly some compromises but certainly 'fit for purpose'.

The S4Rt is the opposite extreme, so completely over the top (power, brakes, etc) that personalising is rather superfluous - to the extent that stock components like a heavy exhaust are not a burden. It can putter along effortlessly, but for the road it takes away some of the enjoyment of riding because the limits are so broad.  The dry clutch is a compromise between emotion and usability as a package it provides a nice bookend with none of that pretentious gold stuff on the Rs.

Then there is my little S2R. Before reading Suzy's post I had been thinking along similar lines. Considering the definition of the Monster as an exercise in compromise ... what more could you want than an S2R 800. The core aesthetic is there ... tank, full trellis, air-cooled motor and a single sided swingarm to boost the Ducati appeal, but some of the components are magnificently compromised in order to bring out a key emotional appeal of the Monster - customisation.

The brakes and suspension are just a lure ... but for street riding the engine, clutch and gearing are right about the sweet-spot. You could almost say the perfect compromise.

Quote from: Betty on June 07, 2013, 01:45:02 PM
The Monster was originally conceived as a naked Superbike, so perhaps the Streetfighter is actually the best Monster being specifically designed as a naked Superbike. Conception aside however, the Monster was brought to market as a compromise ... and to me this is the essence of a Monster ... it is a parts bin bike which presents many options and varying compromises with a certain aesthetic appeal.

So is the S4Rs the best Monster? Well, as it turns out, no. Because by the time it came to market the Monster had become much more urbane than a stripped naked Superbike, its identity was cast before the fridge-based Monsters came along and all that plumbing no longer fit the aesthetic ... and most of it was superfluous for the intent of the bike.

Kind of conflicting thoughts quoted above. If the Monster was originally conceived as a naked Superbike (which I disagee with, I recall it was conceived as a naked bike with touches of the Ducati heritage) then the S4RS would be the best example of that original conception. It has the best (as in most powerful in stock form) motor, best suspension, best brakes, full trellis, SSS, dry clutch. The original Monster was more of (parts wise) a supersport and aircooled so that would buoy your contention of the S2R1000 being the "best" Monster ever if you stuck with the original air cooled design.

Quote from: hbliam on June 07, 2013, 02:29:09 PM
Kind of conflicting thoughts quoted above. If the Monster was originally conceived as a naked Superbike (which I disagee with, I recall it was conceived as a naked bike with touches of the Ducati heritage) then the S4RS would be the best example of that original conception. It has the best (as in most powerful in stock form) motor, best suspension, best brakes, full trellis, SSS, dry clutch. The original Monster was more of (parts wise) a supersport and aircooled so that would buoy your contention of the S2R1000 being the "best" Monster ever if you stuck with the original air cooled design.

Of course it was conflicting 

My understanding is that the Monster came about after Galluzzi had built himself 'one' from an 888. The idea of a 'naked' bike was then adopted by Ducati as an 'ideal'. So I reckon it was 'conceived' as a naked Superbike by its designer ... but idealised simply as a 'naked' for production - if that makes any sense.

My argument is that as a purpose built naked Superbike - the Streetfighter may actually be the true production realisation of Galluzzi's original naked Superbike but it doesn't have the aesthetic appeal of the original Monster.

So your contention that the S4Rs is the ultimate embodiment of that original idea is true. The problem is that the Monster had already established itself as an air-cooled urban assault vehicle cobbled together from other 'bits' before S4s came to market ... so, to me, it kinda missed its opportunity. The idealised design had moved the concept in a certain direction to form what 'we', the public, now conceive as a Monster.

But like I said it is all about compromise. To determine what is 'your' best ever Monster ... you need to decide where to make the compromise in that decision making process.

Hope you like the way I have used the word 'conceive' in different contexts to confuse the matter further 

Hmm, I think really the best Monster ever made... is the one I happen to be riding at the time.

Really I love them all.  I love my EVO, but I also LOVED the '06 620 with Termis (the one that initially created my Monster lust), and the S2R800, and the 696, and the M750, and the.........

How bout we switch the question? Which model monster would you kick out of bed?

Quote from: memper on June 07, 2013, 08:50:05 PM
How bout we switch the question? Which model monster would you kick out of bed?

Any of the 600's. The City. All the ones that don't have a round headlight. Anything Norm modified.

 

Quote from: hbliam on June 07, 2013, 09:47:03 PM
Any of the 600's. The City. All the ones that don't have a round headlight. Anything Norm modified.

Quote from: suzyj on June 07, 2013, 10:08:33 PM

I was messing with you guys...I pretty much like them all. Pretty much.

Quote from: Speeddog on June 05, 2013, 06:36:53 PM
Pffft.

My ANY Monster S4 is obviously the best.

As the first of the S models, The S4's are certainly a labor of love, but oh so worth it. The first four valver, first watercooled, etc. They seem to be the red-headed step children of the Monster family, but that makes them that much more special.

Quote from: Betty on June 07, 2013, 01:45:02 PM
, so the Streetfighter is actually the best Monster being specifically designed as a naked Superbike.

FINALLY!!!! someone who agrees!