(whoa... that other place fell apart REAL fast...good job on getting this board up!)

Anyone duc owners owned a BMW bike before?  So I've been reading about this F800 GS and decided to stop by the local dealer to learn what I can about BMW (i know nothing about the brand). The bike has great specs, looks sexy, and is a whole lot more affordable than the 1200. But I left the dealer with more questions than I came in with and with a bad taste in my mouth. I want to love this bike but...

(1) ABS:  I asked the dealer if I could get the bike without it. He said not unless I pay for the entire bike upfront AND he couldn't give me an estimate on when it would arrive, and it might not arrive until next year. He said basically he'd have to order it on next allocation if an empty slot shows up (but he could get me one with ABS by August). He explained if he ordered it and someone didn't take it, it would be impossible to sell the bike without ABS. He said he wouldn't ride a bike without ABS (how many bikes have this??) so I know how ABS on a car works..and I asked him if it similarly pulsates the braking pressure, and he said it doesn't. But he couldn't really tell me how it works. I don't know about you, but the thought of computer controlled ABS on a bike freaks me the hell out. anyone have experience with this?

(2) Traction control: uhh.. isn't this bike an enduro? now I understand how positraction works, but how does this work with one wheel? how effective could it possibly be on a bike and why would you ever need this? He couldn't explain it but said at least I could turn it off with button.

(3) Accessories: he said you can only use BMW-approved electronic accessories because the bike uses a "single wire" system that is proprietary to the bike. so you couldn't put in 3rd party electronic things on the bike. why is this a good thing?

(4) Heated grips: ok this is not a big deal but when we were talking about ABS, he said the grips come in a package with the ABS and if I didn't get the ABS I wouldn't get the heated grips either..I reminded him that we're in southern Florida.. he gave me a weird look and said "but heated grips are what BMW's are known for." I guess, but I mean, I'll never, ever use them..

(5) Wrenching: he said the most one could do is change the oil, change the bulbs (he actually said this), lube the chain. Valves can't be done yourself. Even working on your brakes (flushing/bleeding) can't be done because they're integrated with the ABS and the computer. isn't wrenching half the fun? how much do you end up spending at the dealer every year?

(6) the computer: So, the new F650 has the exact same 800cc engine, same compression, same valve sizes... BUT has 14 less HP. he said it was detuned and had something to do with the computer. he couldn't say what exactly though, in fact they asked around the dealership and no one knew if it was fuel mapping or what. he said they did that to offer a lower price point bike. he said they can't change it. it just seems like this is wrong to artificially restrict torque like that. the 650 is actually more ideal for me (has a low suspension option, it's lighter) but I couldn't live with knowing it's intentionally restricted and there's nothing I can do about it. have people hacked these themselves? will that void your warranty (since you're probably going to need it given all the proprietary stuff)?


Has anyone had to weight these issues against the benefits of a BMW? Would love to hear your thoughts.

your sales man was a DOFFF...

I can answer some of these questions... but you would be best off posting this on ADVRIDER.COM (best message board ever... next to the DMF) I know a few people who just disconnect the ABS... some say its fine. some have issues. There are ton of modifications you can make that are not BMW certified. And almost everyone I know that has a GS does 80 percent of the work themselves. It is not an easy bare bones bike... they cram a lot of crap into a small space. but it is doable...

I considered an F800S until I found out that the dealers only stock fully optioned bikes which doubles the price of the base model.  The ABS is clunky.  Ducati is the only one who does ABS on a motorcycle properly.  Instead of a powered system with no feel, Ducati just bleeds off pressure when it is about to lock.  BMW dealerships are as bad as Harley dealerships.

Great bike, and in all honesty, I would get one but I'm dead set on the monster.  Go to this link to follow the discussion.  http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100456

Wow.

That's a lot of words.

That's fairly confusing...

I get a similar treatment when I goto my local bmw dealer.  Any time I scoff at the ABS they just look at me in shock and proclaim they would never ride a bike without ABS.  They go on and on about how safe it is.  Needless to say, they got annoyed when I said it should stand up on it's own like my car does. 

Do all you research online and ADVrider before you go in there.  And it's true, if you want anything other than top of the line maxed out accessories then you are probably going to have to order one and wait for it to be shipped in. 

It's a shame BMW acts this way.  They complain they have a hard time attracting new customers and that the majority of their business is repeat buyers. 

maybe you are finding out why Ducati may be the better choice as of present... I sold the last of 4 BMW's that I have owned in the last 8 years (never owned or would own anything different back then)...after they switched from the 1150 motor (never liked the singles of the bricks) and went to the 1200 and adopted all the plastic I couldn't dig them anymore... My BMW's were very reliable ('96 r1000r, '99 r1000rs, '02 r1150 gs, and '81 r100rs "cafe") but when I got the "modding" bug three years ago I picked up the old air-head...I wanted a new bike recently when gas was getting 4 bucks plus and got hooked up through a triple horse trade/buy/sell with an '07 S2R 1000...never even entered my mind to get a BMW again...

Skip on the Beemer...they lost touch!

One thing I noticed during my first couple of trips to the shop is that even though they carry Ducati, Harley Dav...uh, I mean MV Agusta, BMW, and Triumph, all of the employees ride Ducati. 

Quote from: jkris on July 18, 2008, 10:00:14 PMthe dealer...said he wouldn't ride a bike without ABS...the thought of computer controlled ABS on a bike freaks me the hell out.

ABS on a bike keeps your brakes from locking up and throwing you down. A single instance of the ABS system activating will pay for the added cost of the ABS, in terms of avoided medical bills and repairs to the bike.

Lots of ABS owners say they will never buy another non-ABS bike.

Quote from: jkris on July 18, 2008, 10:00:14 PM(2) Traction control: how does this work with one wheel? how effective could it possibly be on a bike and why would you ever need this?

It works by preventing the rear wheel from spinning faster than the front wheel. Can save your skin when turning a corner from a dead stop on slick pavement on a bike with lots of torque. Ask a number of members of this forum how quickly they have gone down in exactly that same situation.

Quote from: jkris on July 18, 2008, 10:00:14 PM(3) Accessories: he said you can only use BMW-approved electronic accessories because the bike uses a "single wire" system that is proprietary to the bike. so you couldn't put in 3rd party electronic things on the bike. why is this a good thing?

It's called CAN-bus (Controlled Area Network). It's all the rage today...everyone is going to it.  Ducati uses it (in fact, they were the first motorcycle manufacturer to incorporate the technology, on the '03 999). My Honda Accord cage uses it. Get used to it (sorry).

Quote from: Narflar on July 19, 2008, 06:07:27 AM
And it's true, if you want anything other than top of the line maxed out accessories then you are probably going to have to order one and wait for it to be shipped in. 

It's a shame BMW acts this way.  They complain they have a hard time attracting new customers and that the majority of their business is repeat buyers. 

That's funny you should mention that. The Duc and BMW's here are sold at the same place. I went it to get an F800 S. I left with an S2R
I should almost write a thank you letter to BMW.

I WAS looking at the F800GS and reading alot of the Euro reviews since they got it 1st.

The ABS and heated grips aren't in  a package deal, the dealers just add all the stuff when they order.  Now to get one w/o ABS, you will probably have to order it and wait for it to ship.  Right now, THAT is going to take awhile; most of the production is being aimed at the F650GS.  Some of the bikes have a switch (like KTM) to turn off the ABS when offroad; I can't remember if that is on the F800Gs or not.

The F650GS uses the same engine, but what I read was that at least part of the lower HP is due to different cams. 

Whle not the same af the GS, my boss recently bought a F800S (off ebay).  I did most of the work getting it shipped, so when it came in he let me take it out as a test ride (test for him to see if anything was wrong - test for me to have fun).  I like the bike.  It rides very similar to my M800.  Definately does NOT have the torque of the monster.  It never feels 'pull you arms out' fast, but you look down and are going faster than you think.

It turns in well and holds a line easily.  I was averaging about 48 mpg on the same roads my monster typically gets 50 mpg on - so similar mileage. 

His has the ABS - I never noticed it.  Which is the best I can say about it.  I do know a guy w/ another older BMW that has ABS.  He changes his own brake pads and they are still $100+ just for the parts. 

The sidebags are.... interesting.  Like an accordion of fabric w/ 2 ratchet straps that lock them into position.  The straps lock them at a position, and the fabric locks them closed, but both parts use the same latch.  It might get easier to use w/ time, but it was a bit 'fiddly' to me.

It still has 6000m valve checks.

While I like the bike, and could live w/ it, I wouldn't go running to buy one.  In fact, it did help me decide NOT to wait to try out the F800GS.  I went and bought a Suzuki V-strom 650...... almost $4k cheaper, 14,500 valve checks, and more places for service.  It also doesn't hurt that the Duc shop that does my service work now, is also a Suzuki shop.  It's not as cool looking as the F800GS, but for the all around picture, I decided it was better for what I wanted.

I rode my friends F800, it was completely lacking in any soul, the engine felt like a sewing machine. I don't think it can really be compared to a Ducati, at least not my S4Rs. It was very comfortable and easy to ride though

Regarding ABS it does actually increase braking distance with a skilled rider onboard in good conditions. That is why some people dislike it.

Hi, I´ve just bought a R1200GS Adventure last friday (expecting delivery and registration within a couple of weeks). The BMW concept is totally different to any other manufacturer and here is NOT the right place for these questions. Try www.advrider.com, there are some helpful people on there.

Think of the BMW of an investment if you can, the bike will be easier to sell on if you have the in-demand options on the bike. ABS is a worthwhile, switchable option. If you don´t like it, switch it off and that´s it. There is NO electronic suspension ESA system for the F800GS as it uses conventional forks and a monoshock rear setup. It is only available on Duolever (K series) and Telelever (R series) bikes from BMW at the moment except the HP2 range.

A really proficient rider MAY be able to outbrake a ABS kitted bike but, if you aren´t you probably won´t outbrake a ABS kitted bike. Most of us want to think we are that good but the truth is we just are not.

Good, useful options on the 800GS are: ABS, heated grips, hard and expandable luggage, sump guard, navigator (i find it very useful).

It´s a really nice bike, I just wanted the same thing but with more power hence the 1200GS ADV.

Regards,
NuTTs

wow Kurt that is a big bike - is that what you are replacing your last beemer with?  very capable but very much a different bike.  I wouldn't say its the same thing as an F800 GS as the big adventure weighs in at something like 540lbs fully fueled...

advrider is good for many things but in a fit of retardation the mods have lumped everything about the F800 GS into one gigantic thread making it difficult to find specific info.  but at least they have a first-rate boobies thread