Quote from: Drjones on October 15, 2013, 06:17:58 PM
New one.  Always heard they were called Break My Wallets.

Also Bring Money Willingly.   

Quote from: duc_fan on October 15, 2013, 01:44:10 PM
They're fun to drive and well-engineered,

I don't consider a car that breaks down all the time to be well engineered. We bought ours new and I highly doubt I would ever purchase one again.

Fun to drive? Yes. When it's working.

This thread has me thinking. I know, scary thought
What we all have in common is Ducati motorcycles, meaning we all should understand thoroughbreds.
If you buy a used Audi, BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini...... you are buying a second  (third) owner thoroughbred.
Did the previous owners give it good food? (high quality premium vs. the cheapest stuff from any source)
Did they treat it right? (baby it until the engine is warmed up and baby it for a few minute before shutdown to allow things to cool off)
Did they take it to the "Vet" as required? (all maintenance done timely)
Allow it to stretch it legs regularly? (ask how many sets of tires, 15K a set is about right, under 10k means abuse, over 20k it was babied)

If you wanted a thoroughbred go for it, just make sure the previous owner wasn't treating it like a plow horse.

Sno_Duc,

Nice post, but...my limited experience with those things is that it doesn't matter how religiously they've been maintained, babied  and cared for.  They will still break.

Bob

It baffles me how the German cars manage to keep such a stellar reputation when all you hear out of them is stupid trouble.  Honestly, they should recieve more scorn than your typical Chrysler product. Coworker just got rid of his new Audi S4 after multiple trips to the dealership couldn't fix a driveline issue.  They finally ended up flying a couple of guys from Europe over to figure it out. He didn't wait to see if it was fixed, just cut his losses and ran.  As has been stated, BMWs good years end with their warranty coverage, hardly an endorsement of actual quality. They aren't well engineered. They are overly complex.   Too many people confuse the two.

It also depends which model you're talking about. I have an E92 M3, and that thing is bulletproof thus far.
Also, I'd point that one reason German cars are "overly complex" is that they typically are more advanced in terms of new features and tech, as opposed to the Lexus model: let the Germans come with the idea, then 5 years later after all the bugs are worked out, we'll copy it and sell it cheaper.
Just depends what you want. All I know is, I've never driven anything else that can duplicate the steering feedback and precision one gets from a BMW or a Porsche. If you want soulless, cheap, and completely reliable, German cars may not be the right call. But if that's what you want, why are you on a Duc instead of a Honda?

no troubles with my Golf (150,000 miles now) or Audi (34,000)

Quote from: DW on October 21, 2013, 09:50:14 AM
It baffles me how the German cars manage to keep such a stellar reputation when all you hear out of them is stupid trouble.

Mercedes were dead reliable until the mid/late 90's. People have been doing veggie oil / biodiesel conversions on old merc diesels and love them. Seems like they're coming back with their reliability now.

My '94 Golf did everything I asked of it and more. Parts wear out and need to be replaced, that's all. DC to Chicago several times, trips to Boston, Niagara Falls... Mainly sold it because I needed another pair of doors. Enough room though, here she is with mattress, bookshelf and bedframe (and there was still space left inside!) when I moved into my new apt.





Damn I miss that car! 

Quote from: swampduc link=topic=65543.msg1211049#msg1211049 date=If you want soulless, cheap, and completely reliable, German cars may not be the right call.

A glowing recommendation. 

Why can't these genius Germans with their "more advanced" technology also make something reliable? And what does cheap have to do with the discussion? Everyone, including me, that posted about the issues with their BMW's obviously can afford one. I just wanted my wife to be able to drive it somewhere without breaking down. And I certainly wouldn't consider a bmw a car with soul. They are as corporate and soulless as a car can be. Old mustangs, challengers, GTO's, Ferraris, etc. those have soul.

Us German types can't leave well enough alone. 

As a german I, unfortunately, have to agree with the above and might add that even the Audi, VW, BMW, Mercedes dealerships, which are about in every town overhere are not able to deal with some of the problems of their gimmick loaded cars. That is the reason that i swore to myself not to buy another new volkswagen again.
Our Audi A6 on the other hand, now 6 years old, is the most reliable car so far.
Concerning the 3 series, my brother in law has a M3 which is hell when working fine but also had its share of shop time (covered by warranty).
The problem with german cars is that prizetag and quality are going opposite ways for the last years.
And also, like mentioned before, the outrageous costs for spareparts.
Klaus

Quote from: Stabel1 on October 28, 2013, 11:21:16 AM
As a german I, ...........
Klaus

Do you live in Germany?
I think a couple of the problems German car have in the USA are crappy fuel, and lack of maintenance. (read the other day that Ford is having problems with their direct injected "eco-boost" engines.........BMW's N54, N55 and Audi's TSI engine also have had problems. Wanna bet that if fed German gasoline a lot of the problems would go away)
Germans by law have to do a yearly TUV check.
Klaus what exactly gets done in a TUV check?

US diesel sucks too
I put in fuel treatment every fill up
Also I do my own fuel filter changes so I know the big pump is never being run dry as I know to cycle the electric pumps afterward.
I don't trust that the dealerships always get that part right

Picked up an E46 last year (with the ZHP performance package).  Car has been great.  Has low miles and was well maintained by the first owner.  Looked at others with sketchy history and ran quickly away.
Before buying it, had many hours of conversation with the local BMW independent shop.  They suggested to stay away from the E90's (2006 and newer).  Much more complex in terms of electronics and software.  And from what I saw in their shop, this was a big part of their business...tracking down bugs with newer 3's and 5's.

Also, no dipstick or spare tire with the 2006 and newer models.

Weak points with all BMW's
Cooling system - pressurized overflow tank is plastic, becomes time bomb after 60k miles.
                       water pump impeller is plastic
Suspension - plan on replacing bushings, helper springs, and possibly ball joint/control arm assy's after 100k
DISA valve - on NA engines.  Plastic flapper valve inside intake manifold which falls apart and spits debris down intake.

Additional weak points on E90's
Steering column lock failure - due to the push button start feature, column fails to unlock
2006 330's has a one year only engine.  Saw two going in for new engines while talking with the local shop
335's fuel pumps

As for DIY, I find the E46 better thought out then the last 3 Honda products I have owned.  Can't speak for the newer models.

Good Luck!
fc

Quote from: Frank C on October 30, 2013, 07:46:25 AM
Cooling system - pressurized overflow tank is plastic, becomes time bomb after 60k miles.
                       water pump impeller is plastic

I can answer why these 2 issues come to be on MOST German cars nowadays...

on the coolant reservoirs ( and washer fluid reservoirs too), they are molded in after the engine and drivetrain are fitted with blow molding techniques to fit in the spaces otherwise not used, so they aren't designed with airflow or heat disapation ability like they have been in the past...the plastic welds degrade from heat over time and thus you have the issues presenting themselves anywhere from 60K-120K ( region and driving dependant)

on the water pump impellors, also most German manu's are going with these because when the bearing starts to wear out and develop a wobble, the fins on the blade being plastic can potentially cycle through the vehicle system without honking out the block or other things, as a chunk of metal from a metal impellor would do which might cause the engine/block/head to have to be replaced in said such event....