Quote from: Betty on March 30, 2014, 04:02:53 PM
OK I am a little confused ... admittedly it doesn't take much ... but am I getting this right:

[...]

Having said all that ... I prefer the old-old Monster styling too.

Does that make things clearer?

Now two of us are confused â€" you quoted posts that I replied with on two different Threads; this one and another on ‘Monster 800 at WDW 2014’.  Or maybe you just pretend to be (confused), me thinks .

The Monster already featured ‘Retro’ Styling when it was launched in ’93 IMHO.  Minimalist and uncluttered.  Clean, lean and mean.  It ticked the three quintessential ‘Real Bike’ boxes; 1) it just looked so good, 2) it sounded like; well, like only a Ducati can sound like, and 3) it was easy to ride.  In fact; it was a Bike that Joe Soap could ride flat out, or almost flat out anyway.  And it made him feel like he was Steve McQueen or James Dean when he was on it.  A real one-ton Bike.  Not too little, not too much â€" just right â€" what Triumph, Norton and BSA tried so hard to accomplish for so long.  A couple of different sizes for different confidence levels and leg-lengths.  The rest is history â€" it sold like clappers.  Everybody loved it â€" from total noob to hardcore biker.

Ducati should NOT be building Scramblers â€" the Hyper and Multi are close enough, also to show that they are outside their comfort zone whenever they veer off-road.  As for Scooters; I also did a couple of silly things when I was young and foolish.  I prefer not to talk about those.  Hell, Ducati should not even have built the Diavel (an Italian Stab at the US Cruiser Market, c’mon) â€" but I will forgive them for that, and only because it kicks V-Max ass so real good.

Moreover; Ducati should NOT be expanding their Model Range at this point in time.  They should rather consolidate and aim to make their current top Models stand out â€" ranging from the 1199 Superleggera (at the Hipster end) through to the Monster 696 (and the PPLs end).  And when Ducati introduces new Models, they should do so where they can dominate, not to follow the Trends set by others.

They have just done an insane thing, killing the Air-cooled Monster Motor at this point in time.  What they have done to the Monster, should have been done to the Streetfighter â€" to hunt down the Brutale and the Beast.  The Monster should have been revamped to take on the forthcoming Retro Bike Wave, head-on â€" Ducati was already ahead of the Competition by two decades.

Only my two cents’…

My M900 is still a great bike even with 50K miles on it, the new M1200S is a better bike and the plumbing on the left side does not detract from the fact that this is a better bike. The Diavel is also a great bike, regardless of the negative comments it gets on this forum, I knew that when I put ~500 miles on one doing sweep rider duties for a Ducati Experience event in Virginia. I waited for the new M1200S to come out before I made my buying decision, the two things that sent me to a Diavel was the overall comfort for 2up riding, my lady is very slender but fits better on the Diavel, the passenger foot pegs competing with space for my foot and I have a small foot, and the icing on the cake was the great deal I got on it and the intoxicating rush from that right handgrip. As for the scrambler, I predict if they do it right they will sell a lot of them here in US, not my thing, but there is a lot of interest in my circles. - Gene

Quote from: Estoma on March 30, 2014, 09:07:24 PM
Now two of us are confused â€" you quoted posts that I replied with on two different Threads; this one and another on ‘Monster 800 at WDW 2014’.  Or maybe you just pretend to be (confused), me thinks .

I combined the two quotes because I read them back to back and thought ... 'that is a bit contradictory isn't it?'

Quote from: Estoma on March 30, 2014, 09:07:24 PM
Only my two cents’…

So I will try not to get carried away, but I am still a little confused.

Quote from: Estoma on March 30, 2014, 09:07:24 PM
Ducati should NOT be building Scramblers â€" the Hyper and Multi are close enough, also to show that they are outside their comfort zone whenever they veer off-road.

I don't think Ducati are building an off-road bike with the Scrambler any more than they have built an off-road bike in the Hyper or Multi-stroodle. Sure they could be ridden off-road but Ducati probably expect this as much as I do.

The Scrambler is Ducati's way of giving you what you want ... an air-cooled, retro, fun bike. If that is what you want I encourage you to embrace it - modify it if necessary just as Ducati expect of most of the Wankeristi*. I see this as a far more plausible solution to your 'problem' than having Ducati agreeing with you that their biggest seller move backwards in design and performance when it is often viewed in the market that they are already behind the competition (as you mentioned earlier).

Quote from: Estoma on March 30, 2014, 09:07:24 PM
They have just done an insane thing, killing the Air-cooled Monster Motor at this point in time.

I didn't know they had killed the air-cooled Monster. I haven't seen anything to indicate the wee-Monster will be killed off ... but as has been discussed many times - emissions targets will continue to drive the bigger, more powerful bikes to water-cooling.

* I use this as a term of endearment, please don't take offence. The Ducatisti terminology only perpetuates the snobbish perception and confirms us (yes I include myself) as a bunch of wankers to those looking from 'outside'.

 At the risk of posting a "+1" post, I gotta agree with Betty here. The Monster started out as a stripped down version of their race bike, which the Steetfighter now does.  To me, putting the 4 valve motor into the Monster just takes it back to its original intent.
I see the Streetfighter as a temporary model to fill in until the Monster fills that role again.

Quote from: Betty on March 31, 2014, 11:05:08 AM
* I use this as a term of endearment, please don't take offence. The Ducatisti terminology only perpetuates the snobbish perception and confirms us (yes I include myself) as a bunch of wankers to those looking from 'outside'.

Why would you not want to be regarded to be a snob, when you are riding a Ducati*, particularly a Monster?  I was on the ‘outside’ for a long time and have personally experienced the resentment of the Deprived.  They know that they are missing something, even though only some realize that they would/could not fully appreciate whatever it is that they are missing.  But they suspect something like that anyway and it infuriates them.  Capisce?

* or any other passionate** Italian Bike, but most ostentatiously of course, a Ducati .
** which is why Ride-by-Wire is simply sacrilege when fitted to a Monster!

I firmly believe, for example, that people driving Maserati Quattroportes are total snobs .

Quote from: SpikeC on March 31, 2014, 11:22:59 AM
I see the Streetfighter as a temporary model to fill in until the Monster fills that role again.

I most respectfully have to completely disagree with that statement.  The success of the Monster revolves around accidentally coming up with a Bike that looked, sounded and felt tougher that it was.  It would make you feel bad-ass for being able to twist its ear all the way round, and keep it there and for being able to take it later and lower into a corner than you would ever have dreamt otherwise.  And you could look at it for hours, grinning, from any angle, any day.

To do any of that to/on/with the Streetfighter you need to be bad-ass.  And those guys buy it and fulfills its potential.

Quote from: Estoma on April 02, 2014, 07:05:00 AMThe success of the Monster revolves around accidentally coming up with a Bike that looked, sounded and felt tougher that it was.  It would make you feel bad-ass for being able to twist its ear all the way round, and keep it there and for being able to take it later and lower into a corner than you would ever have dreamt otherwise.  And you could look at it for hours, grinning, from any angle, any day.

To do any of that to/on/with the Streetfighter you need to be bad-ass.  And those guys buy it and fulfills its potential.

All the semantics of what you guise are debating aside, that's a very good way to sum up the Monster. It's the bike that rekindled and took my love for bikes to a higher level after having my ass handed to me by a Jap I4 several years ago.

Why would I or anyone else buy a new monster if they were the same as an old Monster?  The retro bikes didn't sell.  You can still buy an air cooled 796.  A sport touring version of the new Monster would be perfect.

Agree, I'm buiding one out of my Diavel, still have the ST3, just hope the Diavel works as well, although I have used my M900 on trips just as far as the ST3, I take the ST3 if there is any super slab involved such as getting to INDY GP, twistys thorugh VA/WV/SE Ohio then Super Slab. - Gene

Quote from: Betty on March 31, 2014, 11:05:08 AM
The Scrambler is Ducati's way of giving you what you want ... an air-cooled, retro, fun bike. If that is what you want I encourage you to embrace it - modify it if necessary just as Ducati expect of most of the Wankeristi*. I see this as a far more plausible solution to your 'problem' than having Ducati agreeing with you that their biggest seller move backwards in design and performance when it is often viewed in the market that they are already behind the competition (as you mentioned earlier).

Afterthought; they should probably have called it a Roadster then, rather than Scrambler.  Not so sure about the 'fun' part.  That sounds like something to be associated with a Scooter instead .

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=29307
http://www.visordown.com/road-tests-first-rides/first-ride-bmw-r-ninet-review/24384.html
http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/index.html?content=http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/us/en/bike/urban/rninet/rninet_overview.html

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVRtWb8AcXg#t=71

Isn't this the same old sh#t? 

A new bike comes out.
Some like it.
Some hate it.
Immediately it's compared to some older bike which someone likes.
Thread divulges into pics of old bikes.
Old timers come out of the wood-work claiming "They don't make 'em like they used to!"
New timers chime in claiming that new is better & defend it.
Thread is left to languish until it's finally put onto page #2 where no one has to see it.

Lather.
Rinse.
Repeat.
Every time a new bike comes out...

Quote from: Duck-Stew on September 26, 2014, 06:52:30 AM
Thread is left to languish until it's finally put onto page #2 where no one has to see it.

and someone posts something about said bike?

I like turtles

Quote from: The Last In Line on September 26, 2014, 06:40:16 AM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVRtWb8AcXg#t=71

That looks like a radiator rather than an oil cooler...

Great Video btw.  I can only imagine what is going through the factory guys mind when he realizes the guy behind him has a Go Pro.... 

Oh shit, gotta go!