i spin the cam to check for too tight and push the valve down to check for too loose.

I'm assuming you're talking about that weird clicking noise?

Quotei spin the cam to check for too tight and push the valve down to check for too loose.

How does pushing the valve down allow you to determine if its to loose?  (Always nice to hear from you).

1/ remove belt
2/ remove opening rocker locating clip
3/ turn cam to allow opening rocker to slide across off top of valve
4/ remove opening shim
5/ push down on tip of valve and turn cam to find the base circle where you check the clearance - i use my thumb to do this
6/ push down on valve tip to see if there is clearance and how much and decide what to do from there

that's how i do it.  generally the tightest points are at the ends of the base circle.  spinning the cam lets you feel for any drag, no matter how light.

Ok got my valves done yesterday. It took all day but hey, I never said I was fast..

Closing statements (& suggestions) from practical experience doing this on the bike

1) Take the belts off! There is NO WAY i would have felt the drag otherwise. Also with the belts off you can prevent stupid mishaps associated with dropping the valve into the motor. I used nylon rope to infill the gap between the piston and the valve and squished the valve into place. Worked great.

2) Spinning the cam works WAY better than spinning the shim---> NIGHT and DAY difference. I could still spin the shim when my closer was tight. spinning the cam was more sensitive.

3) slide BOTH opener rocker arms over on each head when your check for drag on the closers! NIGHT and DAY difference! I could feel 1/2 a thousandth clearance difference. Its really weird when you feel drag, spend literally 30 seconds sanding a closer, insert back, and drag is gone.

Hopes this thread helps others undergoing this task.

Quote from: EEL on August 03, 2008, 11:54:52 AM
Closing statements (& suggestions) from practical experience doing this on the bike

1) Take the belts off! There is NO WAY i would have felt the drag otherwise. Also with the belts off you can prevent stupid mishaps associated with dropping the valve into the motor. I used nylon rope to infill the gap between the piston and the valve and squished the valve into place. Worked great.

2) Spinning the cam works WAY better than spinning the shim---> NIGHT and DAY difference. I could still spin the shim when my closer was tight. spinning the cam was more sensitive.

Definitely true if you're aiming for zero clearance on the closers - if you're adjusting to "new school" specs, you're aiming for so much more clearance that you should never have any danger of binding them shut.

Quote3) slide BOTH opener rocker arms over on each head when your check for drag on the closers! NIGHT and DAY difference! I could feel 1/2 a thousandth clearance difference. Its really weird when you feel drag, spend literally 30 seconds sanding a closer, insert back, and drag is gone.

Heh - some of us only have the one opener rocker per head :-)

old-school-big

if you have the belts off you can rotate the engine around to tdc or just near it to hold the valves up with the piston.  there's no need to put anything in the cylinder.

Quote from: brad black on August 04, 2008, 04:52:56 AM
if you have the belts off you can rotate the engine around to tdc or just near it to hold the valves up with the piston.  there's no need to put anything in the cylinder.

Yeah I know, The only reason I wedged rope inside is because even with the belts off and the cylinder up at TDC, the valve would drop just enough to make it really difficult to put the half rings on. Its a pain being wedged between the propped tank and the vertical cylinder pushing down on the closer rocker arm and trying to jam an ultra small half ring into a miniscule groove, all the while the valve is sliding ever so slightly down making everything out of your reach. The rope just filled in the gap and kept the valve completely closed so when I pushed the closer rocker arm down I could get to the half ring groove with ease.

On a separate note, some additional input for all those trying to do valve adjustments.

In regards to timing, Since all measurements are done at TDC. Before I even took the timing belts off, I went ahead and put the vertical cylinder at TDC and marked the cam location with respect to that little dot on the timing belt cover. That way I knew where to take clearance measurements when the belts were off without having to feel for anything. From what I saw, the TDC stroke on the vertical cylinder doesnt align with any marks. The cams, flywheel and crank line up in sync only on the horizontal cylinder stroke. If you have a spare bolt sitting around you can lock the cams in place when you're taking measurements by threading the bolt through the provided holes in the timing belt cover next to each respective head.

Quote from: EEL on August 03, 2008, 11:54:52 AM
I used nylon rope to infill the gap between the piston and the valve and squished the valve into place. Worked great.

Was this the same nylon rope you rolled down the filthy driveway, then placed into your motor? Sounds like a recipe to add dirt and debris to the innards.

Quote from: someguy on August 04, 2008, 09:28:41 PM
Was this the same nylon rope you rolled down the filthy driveway, then placed into your motor? Sounds like a recipe to add dirt and debris to the innards.

Funny coming from someone who "rides" a pile of dirt and debris..

May I present exhibit "A"


To each his own....

you push the valve down which pushes the rocker down then slide a punch or the like - 10mm or so diameter - in alongside the valve and under the cam end of the closing rocker.  this holds the closing rocker down.  then turn the crank to get the piston at tdc and it'll lift the valve up.  inlet will come up enough to get the collets off easily and maybe even too far to block the shim coming off the valve tip - it'll hit the edge of the opening rocker.  the exhaust will lift a tad, but usually not as much as you need.

10mm punch...got it. I'll have to try that next time..Thanks brad.