Kev & Tim, excellent stuff but you won't change his opinion with facts and lucid debate.

not trolling, im getting some good info and im not saying anyone should be denied their opinion.

on another note something that has always hung with me visually on Harley's is that the transmission always seems huge compared to other designs, is there some different approach to a sequential gearbox or what.

also I understand theres a lot of history but I guess since they haven't been bought by a whole bunch of different companies over the years the nomenclature/acronyms have been allowed to just stack up more than any other brand. im thinking along the lines of like jeep, each generation has its basic frame designator and that keeps things relatively in check

OK...we need details on this bike (new thread if you have to). Details!!! That think looks awesome! I'd love to have a Duc with those numbers for racing!  

Quote from: Tim on January 21, 2015, 01:38:46 PM

You don't want to know how much money I have sunk into my Ducati 1000SS track bike that weighs 337 pounds and makes 98.75 RELIABLE horsepower, but suffice to say you could buy a REALLY NICE brand new big twin touring Harley for the sum I've expended.

Ducati 1000SS track bike by s4rsrider, on Flickr

Quote from: Triple J on January 21, 2015, 02:19:30 PM
OK...we need details on this bike (new thread if you have to). Details!!! That think looks awesome! I'd love to have a Duc with those numbers for racing!  

+1, that is definitely a damn nice duc

Quote from: rufus1138 on January 21, 2015, 02:05:16 PM


on another note something that has always hung with me visually on Harley's is that the transmission always seems huge compared to other designs, is there some different approach to a sequential gearbox or what.

also I understand theres a lot of history but I guess since they haven't been bought by a whole bunch of different companies over the years the nomenclature/acronyms have been allowed to just stack up more than any other brand. im thinking along the lines of like jeep, each generation has its basic frame designator and that keeps things relatively in check

You're probably thinking about the primary drive and clutch housing on the side of the bike more than the transmission which on big twins is a smaller, separately replaceable unit hidden behind the motor and primary case.

In contrast the Sportster is a unitized motor where the transmission is in the same housing/cases, though there is still an attached primary/clutch assembly.

Yes, nomenclature had grown because of the direct lineage.

Ahhh I never knew the primary drive was set up like that, I thought that whole thing was tyranny, it just looks super bulky that way.

.

This bad boy was there yesterday as well. 

http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2015/01/19/harley-davidson-street-750-kustom-kommune.html#.VMETMEfF_Pp

 

i'll admit i got lost in wall-o-text and stopped reading, but let me clarify something about my original statement.

If you love the machine you're on, and you ride it, and it makes you smile.. than in the grand scheme of things that's a good thing. I have a few friends that ride HD and raz me constantly for my "uncomfortable" sportbikes, granted i've logged more miles on my 600 hornet in 3 months than any of them have in two years.. but do they smile when they go out? yep. so good on them.
When it comes to being on the road i could care less what other people are on, to me anyone on two wheels is a brother when we're rolling down the road and i'd stop to help a gixxxer squid just as soon as i'd help a HD rider. Now when im sitting with my friends and someone asks me what i think about hd? that's a different story. look at the casting on the fork tubes. its rough, poor casting. look at that shiny "HD" logo on the SINGLE POT brake calipers,(( looks like my Fbomb got auto edited, lol thats pretty clever, so i'll use firefly lingo instead)  "GORAM"  sticker. a chrome STICKER. The bars a cheap steel, the grips are cheap rubber, the suspension is 100% non-adjustable on all models, save for some rear preload MAYBE. the frame design is as old as time itself. the engine mapping is outdated, the cables are routed clumsily, the motors really don't make as much torque as everyone claims and make nothing for HP. they are the way they are because it looks cool. not because it works. and that bothers me.
If harlery's were priced to reflect their zero (cares) givin attitude i would have no issue, some of these things just are not important to people and that's OKAY. But to be asked to pay high end italian race bike prices for all of that is insulating.  It's just my opinion that a new rider should be promtley talked out of buying any new bike. (yes honda has some overpriced new rider models too) I will always try and talk a new rider into a cheap used bike that doesn't put them into debt for a sport that they might not even fall in love with. for 4k this would be a great thing for new riders. the tech and craftsmanship reflect a 4k price point. that's my opinion. I don't hate harley bikes. I hate harley raping people who don't know better with "cool" instead of "function"

That all said, if it tickles you, buy it, i'll high five you at the gas staion and welcome you to the world of riding because it's just my opinion and honestly my opinion isn't all that important. throw a leg, fire it up, and smile on.

A few minor points of correction.

They haven't used a single pot caliper for more than a decade (unless this new entry level bike has em).

They had 4-pots on Sportys by 2000 (though changed to Nissin 2-pots in 04), and they had multi-pot Kelsey-Hayes on Big Twins before that, though they've since changed to 4-pot Brembos.

Rear suspension pre-load has always been adjustable (well, as long as I've been alive), and various models have had front adjustments (preload via air on many touring models over the years). Plus various sport models have had fully adjustable front and rear suspensions, FXDX, 1200S, XRX etc. But MOST of their clientele don't require it.

Fuel mapping is arguably one of the best in the industry and had been since their early Weber-Marelli injected models (I had one in 96 which ran perfectly for the ~2 years and ~65k miles I kept it, and well past 100k for the next owner).

Don't know what you're basing that torque statement on.

Don't know what you think is cheap about the rubber on the grips, but I've replaced grips on metric bikes in shorter periods of time/miles than I've owned Harleys without ever needing to replace them.

Many parts on Harleys are, uhhh, industrial in design. They are overly robust and sometimes a tad crude by design. Overbuilt and understressed in many areas. But the fit and finish, and at deep rich paintwork, and seamless metal fuel tanks etc. are first rate.

Like or don't like is fine, but perception isn't always reality.

Quote from: reverus on January 23, 2015, 11:21:54 PM


That all said, if it tickles you, buy it, i'll high five you at the gas staion and welcome you to the world of riding because it's just my opinion and honestly my opinion isn't all that important. throw a leg, fire it up, and smile on.

this 

Quote from: Kev M on January 24, 2015, 03:43:12 AM

Like or don't like is fine, but perception isn't always reality.

For years I dismissed HD as crude heavy wayback machines built for the bar hopping HOG crowd. 

Until I got schooled by a Road King riding old dude on a twisty back road. OK, it was his back road to his house, but still it opened my eyes. 

I took the time to talk to a few HD riders and check out the bikes.

While they are not to my style of ride, they are good, well built bikes. HD knows its customer base, and what they want from them, it shows in the sales numbers. Plus HD is willing to push the engineering within those confines.

HD is not going to build a Desmosedici, but it will build touring bikes, cruisers, & retro styled bike with the best of them. It's no wonder that metric cruisers have the same design and styling cues as HD.

And back to the original post, I think the new HD 500 is a wise move for HD to gather a portion of the new rider segment and cement some brand loyalty. HD also knows how to manage brand loyalty well.

Quote from: reverus on January 21, 2015, 01:10:47 AM
msrp 6,799... after dealer mark up more like 8k. after they sell you a bunch of HD shoelaces maybe closer to 10k,

hp rating 33.5.    

I almost got duped into a similar situation looking at the HD 48, pretty bike. But when you look at the cost for what you are getting I think it's HD really taking advantage of people There's just no need to charge people that much money for a bike with that level of tech.

So, i guess im saying, I agree, a new rider would enjoy owning that.. 10k would get you SOOO much more in almost any other brand. It's just crazy to me that people still buy these things. 

Sorry not being a mindless HD hater, I just dont understand it.

That's the problem with noobs, theyre noobs.  They see the Bar&Shield, and pull out their wallets before doing a reality check.  OTOH, it's better looking than the Blast, and Hardley has a really great entry rider program.  I'm waiting for the LiveWire.............