Hey all,

I was at my local dealer and found out that Ducati is selling the DP cam kit including the ECU for around $700. I know the cams will work but what about the ECU?

I have heard that because the new bikes (HM in this case) do not come with the red ket that the ECU may not be compatible.

Anyone know for sure?

It works. I dont think think  the cams fit but ECU does. here are the dyno graphs for an HM1100 Cam kit ECU on an S2R1k. bet you didnt see the answer comming so easily did ya?

Torque


HP


A/F

NICE!

Thanks He Man!


Was it just plug and play or was there some tuning involved?

Plug Play and  tune. If you can find the original owner of those (gusduc on TOB), or talk to Ivan on this board, he was with gus when they did the dynos.

How do you know the cams will fit? if the cams fit ( and do you know how much of a performance increase there is with those cams?) and the ECU fits, im sure you can squeeze a nice fat number of tq onto the curve. Do you think you can do the cams with the engine on the bike?

Quote from: He Man on July 30, 2008, 07:17:08 PM
How do you know the cams will fit? if the cams fit ( and do you know how much of a performance increase there is with those cams?) and the ECU fits, im sure you can squeeze a nice fat number of tq onto the curve. Do you think you can do the cams with the engine on the bike?

While I was at my dealer discussing the kit, Mark (salesguy) mentioned they were thinking of doing the kit on a DS motor for their race bike. I wouldn't think they would consider it if it wouldn't work, no?

During our discussion we never mentioned compatibility of the ECU but they were pretty sure the cams would work. I personally couldn't imagine the cams not fitting. They run the same heads on the DS1100 as on the DS1000 right? IIRC the only difference is the larger bore for the displacement increase. The HM runs a B & S of 98 x 71.5 mm and the S2R1K runs a B & S of 94 x 71.5 mm.

i woudlnt doubt they would phyiscally fit, but what about the fueling? are HM1100 valves larger?

Quote from: He Man on July 30, 2008, 07:43:34 PM
i woudlnt doubt they would phyiscally fit, but what about the fueling? are HM1100 valves larger?

Thats a great question that I really don't know the answer to. I can't ever remember reading anything about larger valves in a review anywhere and the media is usually pretty good about mentioning all the upgrades when a new model comes out. I'll go back and check all the articals I have on the HM and on the DS1100 motor in general and see if I can find any info.

To me it really doesn't matter. I'm in it for the DP ECU and I may install the cams but I plan on going the PCIII route once the O2 is disabled from the system. I have been running the bike with it removed since last year and it runs ok but a little down on power IMO. I posted the dyno chart on TOB but here it is again in case you missed it.

Ok here is what I found out....

The part numbers for the heads are exactly the same. The part number is - 301.2.233.1A Complete vertical head. If the parts are the same that would indicate that the valves are the same.

The part numbers for the cams are almost the same. In the example I'm using the cam from the vertical head.

DS1100 - 148.1.285.2A Vertical head camshaft

DS1000 - 148.1.285.1A Vertical head camshaft

I wonder what the difference is being only one number off?

Thats a bit low from what ive seen, i want to get the ECU as well. My bikes been running very strange lately. it seems like a good price, Pro Italia has got it for $699.  The cams would be useless if you dont install them. I dont know what type of cam it is either. Race cams generally leave the valves open longer, but the intervals become shorter. So to make up for it, you dump more fuel into it. Yes, youd get more power, but how much power? How will your fuel economy be affected (i only get 35mpg most of the time, and only 28mpg if im not lane splitting). How much money will you spend on fixing the fueling issue?

its all relative to what you want. for me? its just a cheap alternative to DS1000 DPECU, and i could use the cam as motorcycle art I doubt anyone would purchase the cams its like buying a motorcycle when there is no more gasoline. Moreover, for the same price as the HM1100 DPECU, you could get an RB3 unit which has much more features than a DPECU+PCIII combo. What year is your 1k? 06 or +?

Regarding the different part numbers, maybe the camshaft for the DS1100 has larger diameter? that would mean machining the cam or the heads.

Quote from: He Man on July 30, 2008, 08:09:16 PM

Regarding the different part numbers, maybe the camshaft for the DS1100 has larger diameter? that would mean machining the cam or the heads.

The cams cannot be a larger diameter otherwise the head would be a completely different part number right?

Quote from: He Man on July 30, 2008, 08:09:16 PM
Thats a bit low from what ive seen, i want to get the ECU as well. My bikes been running very strange lately. it seems like a good price, Pro Italia has got it for $699.  The cams would be useless if you dont install them. I dont know what type of cam it is either. Race cams generally leave the valves open longer, but the intervals become shorter. So to make up for it, you dump more fuel into it. Yes, youd get more power, but how much power? How will your fuel economy be affected (i only get 35mpg most of the time, and only 28mpg if im not lane splitting). How much money will you spend on fixing the fueling issue?

its all relative to what you want. for me? its just a cheap alternative to DS1000 DPECU, and i could use the cam as motorcycle art I doubt anyone would purchase the cams its like buying a motorcycle when there is no more gasoline. Moreover, for the same price as the HM1100 DPECU, you could get an RB3 unit which has much more features than a DPECU+PCIII combo. What year is your 1k? 06 or +?

Yeah the dyno numbers are a bit low which is the problem I'm having. The bike runs great but it's down on power compared to when the O2 was plugged in. I didn't really have too much of a surging problem but it backfired all over the place on decel which drove me freakin' crazy.

Fuel economy is high on my priority list when it comes to the bike. To me it's a toy and if I have to spend a few extra dollars at the pump for more performance then I can live with that.

As far as the Rapid bike, I would pay .12 cents for one fo those things. I've read a few posts where people love them and I've read a few where they can't get the thing to work at all. It's still too new and there are no tuning centers anywhere near where I live. Not to mention the recent thread of them pulling out fo the U.S. - I'm all set thanks...

I think the answer is the HM cams and DP ECU. I have to have my valves done shortly so I'll have Eric install the cams at the same time. I was planning on having the stock cams degreed at the same time so how much more work could it be to just throw them in?

Talk to GusDuc.   He did not get the cams, just the ECU.   In fact, I think that he bought the standard DP ECU for the HM, from someone that upgraded to the newer DP ECU+Cams for the HM.

I believe that it runs great, but he needs to remove power from the ECU periodically because it seems to lock up, probably an incompatibility with the immobilizer, or something else within the gauge cluster.   

We both had our bikes run on the same dyno, with virtually identical results.  I think that particular dyno is stingy.  The AFR sure looks good.  He and I talked about adding a switch in the return path for the ECU, just to make it easier to reset it without lifting the tank and disconnecting the battery.  I need to  follow up with him on this to see if he still wants to do it.

Question.

Would a stock HM ecu work with the S2R1000? im not sure what the new immobilizer is like. But if it does, you could get a 2nd hand ecu and buy a pc3.

Why would the ECU lock up? i dont understand how it would take time for the gauge cluster to realize its the wrong ecu. Perhaps theres an extra code in it specificly for the HM cluster that ours cannot read? If you wire a switch in it, youd have to constantly fix the clock, but i guess that is a moot when we're talking about a cheap DPECU. How often does it need to be reset?

Quote
The cams cannot be a larger diameter otherwise the head would be a completely different part number right?

It would seem so. Maybe its just a more aggressive cam?

Quote from: He Man on July 30, 2008, 10:13:22 PM
Question.

Would a stock HM ecu work with the S2R1000? im not sure what the new immobilizer is like. But if it does, you could get a 2nd hand ecu and buy a pc3.

Why would the ECU lock up? i dont understand how it would take time for the gauge cluster to realize its the wrong ecu. Perhaps theres an extra code in it specificly for the HM cluster that ours cannot read? If you wire a switch in it, youd have to constantly fix the clock, but i guess that is a moot when we're talking about a cheap DPECU. How often does it need to be reset?

It would seem so. Maybe its just a more aggressive cam?

Stock ECU's come installed in the bike pre-progrrammed to the bikes existing keys. I suppose you could order a stock one from Ducati and program it to your Monster. It's worth looking into I suppose. With that in mind maybe it would be a better idea to just order an ECU from an DS M1000 and then tune it with a PCIII.

The big question is......how much is a stock ECU?

when you said order a stock DS1000 ecu, you mean a M1000ie ECU right? Those are the ones that do not have O2 sensor. If you can grab a virgin stock M1000ie ECU and throw it on for under $300, and $200-300 for a PCIII. We're in buisness.

1 other thing to research. i know the S2R1000's idle is controled by a stepper motor. is the m1000 the same?