Looking for a more serious track tire for a light weight bike, thoughts?

Started by Monsterlover, June 23, 2016, 07:46:13 PM

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Monsterlover

June 23, 2016, 07:46:13 PM
I'm rolling some cheap shinko's on my 450 supermoto and want to get into something that will be a nice track tire that doesn't require warmers.

Any thoughts on that?  The bike weighs 265 pounds idling on the freight scale at the train yard.  I weigh an easy 230-240 with gear on.

I have not yet adopted the sliding rear style of riding.  Just lots of lean with either the foot out or knee down.

Front is normal sized as I recall, rear is a 150.
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Speeddog

#1
June 23, 2016, 07:53:30 PM
 [popcorn]
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~

manwithgun

#2
June 23, 2016, 11:47:21 PM Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 09:22:48 AM by manwithgun
   Did you need a DOT tire to ride on the street as well or something strictly for track?  For a street legal tire, the Dunlop Q3 is highly regarded.   For a track slick, lots of racers on the west coast have switched over to Metzeler (branch of Pirelli) Racetec in the K1 compound; Gage McAllister and Joey Pascarella to name a couple.  Performance and life are said to be excellent and locals have been swearing by them.  22-25psi HOT for the small guys, maybe higher with more weight.  I can post a chart once I'm on my computer.   Haven't ridden them so I can't say how they come up to temp without warmers.   Dunlop slicks have put the fear in me when cold but great off warmers or once up to temp.  Michelin is a great tire and very manageable without warmers but cost more.   Bridgestones have better pricing but I didn't get along with them.  Many people ran them for contingency and noted that bike set up was crucial for getting the most out of them (should go without saying)...
   Note: I haven't "tracked" the Q3 but it is what they use at Socal Supermoto School.   I have ridden Supermoto on Q2s and was very impressed with how confidently you could over-ride that tire.  Has grip through the whole heat range, feels extremely planted, with a distinct chatter when pushed too hard that is very easy to manage.  A tire like this might/might not produce your best ever lap time, but as a skills and confidence builder, it may be worth trying.  Pretty cheap too. 

   Also, all of the above mentioned "slicks" are referring to each manufacturers supermoto specific tire.   Usually a softer carcass/compound/construction to address lighter motorcycles and different weight distribution. 
I ride both kinds,   Country, and Western.....

Monsterlover

#3
June 24, 2016, 02:52:24 AM
I'll check out the Q's, thanks
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

koko64

#4
June 24, 2016, 02:56:49 AM
Any Supermoto race tyres from Michelin, etc? Maybe DOT one's that might warm up sans tyre warmers or even DOT Supersport race tyres
2015 Scrambler 800

Monsterlover

#5
June 24, 2016, 03:32:57 AM
Quote from: koko64 on June 24, 2016, 02:56:49 AM

Power Supermotos are out because of sized and price. Pilot Power is what keeps coming up in searches.
Any Supermoto race tyres from Michelin, etc? Maybe DOT one's that might warm up sans tyre warmers or even DOT Supersport race tyres
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

manwithgun

#6
June 24, 2016, 10:10:30 AM Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 10:35:10 AM by manwithgun
Quote from: koko64 on June 24, 2016, 02:56:49 AM
Any Supermoto race tyres from Michelin, etc? Maybe DOT one's that might warm up sans tyre warmers or even DOT Supersport race tyres

   Yes!  I've edited my above post to clarify that the "slicks" mentioned were each manufacturers supermoto race specific tire.   They usually have a softer carcass/compound/construction to address lighter bikes and different weight distribution.  Michelin is still in the supermoto game and have even accommodated the newer 16" wheel size.   16", 16.5", and 17" are being used up front.   Tires usually retain similar overall diameter but the smaller rim size allows more aggressive tire profile and cornering contact patch.   I haven't tried any of the Michelin compounds from the last couple years but liked their 29A Pilot supermoto front, with or without warmers.   
   If by DOT supersport race tire you mean Dunlop GP/GPA 211, the Ntec rubber has always made me nervous when cold but love them at temp on big bikes.  Might just be me.   Tires are kind of a personal thing. Add to that brand allegiance and it easily becomes a Ford vs Chevy thing.   Grip, feel, and confidence is what I'm after and we all perceive that differently.
   Koko64, are you looking for tires for Hypermotard?  A local guy that rides his at the supermoto track has been on the hunt for new rubber.  Apparently, the 5" rim and swingarm clearance has limited his choices.  Bridgestone bt003 was recommended but are discontinued.  Next recommendation was the Dunlop D209GP.  No confirmation on how/if they fit.
http://stores.racetireservice.com/dunlop-d209gp-160-60-rx-17-uk/   
   If for the Ducati, I would check with fellow Hyper riders for recommendations.  Considering the weight of the bike, what I know does not apply...


   
I ride both kinds,   Country, and Western.....

koko64

#7
June 24, 2016, 11:02:13 AM Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 02:49:11 PM by koko64
I was thinking for ML but would run Pirelli SBK Pro tyres with warmers for my Hyper while I run Pirelli SBK on the Gixxer.
2015 Scrambler 800

ducpainter

#8
June 27, 2016, 01:36:28 PM
I'd run a Michelin Power 2ct if they make your size.
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kopfjäger

#9
June 27, 2016, 01:55:48 PM
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Monsterlover

#10
June 27, 2016, 04:41:04 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on June 27, 2016, 01:36:28 PM
I'd run a Michelin Power 2ct if they make your size.

I looked but didn't find...

Looked again just now... There they are at revzilla. $235 for the pair.

Are the 2ct's old tech?  Seems like they've had these out a while.

I was able to find a 120/60. I have a 120/70 on the front now.

A 160 on the rear would be a negative. The chain self clearances the left side of the 150 as it is ;D

Quote from: kopfjäger on June 27, 2016, 01:55:48 PM
https://youtu.be/alYYU4mTc-g

Jebus. Talk about punishing a tire [laugh]
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

koko64

#11
June 27, 2016, 04:46:31 PM
What about the Pirelli Corsa/Supercorsa range dot track tyres? They are also narrower a tyre for a given size compared to Dunlops and Michelins if that helps.
2015 Scrambler 800

koko64

#12
June 27, 2016, 04:49:57 PM Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 04:51:58 PM by koko64
Supercorsa SC. Track/DOT tyres come in 120/70 17" and 150 17" in different compounds. Minimal tread pattern but should help warm up. You could go softer compounds without warmers  and see if that works or a soft front medium rear.
2015 Scrambler 800

Monsterlover

#13
June 27, 2016, 05:12:08 PM
Quote from: koko64 on June 27, 2016, 04:49:57 PM
Supercorsa SC. Track/DOT tyres come in 120/70 17" and 150 17" in different compounds. Minimal tread pattern but should help warm up. You could go softer compounds without warmers  and see if that works or a soft front medium rear.

I'm not opposed to them by any means, but all my hard track riding *has* been on Michelin Power Race tires and I just sort of grew a liking
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

koko64

#14
June 27, 2016, 05:32:31 PM
I spent most of my time racing on Dunlops but at my slow track day pace nowdays, have found the Pirellis easy to adjust to. Just be careful not to be caught out with tyre pressures. The old days of generic pressures are gone and mfr specific pressures catch people out. My Pirelli SBK Race tyres need more air than Dunlop NTec slicks with heavier side walls for example.
2015 Scrambler 800
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