Belts were removed in order to check for binding so cams could spin more freely.

I don't think you bike should die even if the shims are way off.  Are you absolutely sure you are not low on fuel?  Your symptoms are indicative of low fuel.

bike has some fuel. ~ 1/4 of a tank.

perhaps timing is off by 180 deg.  anyone know how to check/ remedy

thanks

Either the marks match up or they do not.  I don't think you can be off if the marks match up.

Quote from: vboulderer on August 28, 2008, 09:07:27 AM
bike has some fuel. ~ 1/4 of a tank.

perhaps timing is off by 180 deg.  anyone know how to check/ remedy

thanks

Having timing "off by 180" is more of a car thing.  If you rotate a distributor incorrectly in a car with a standard distributor, it can do that.  That refers to ignition timing, not valve timing. 

Since you never touched the pickup coils and the flywheel, ignition timing will not have been changed.  All you can change with a timing belt is when the valves open in relation to the position of the crank.  Valve timing.   

There is no "off by 180" option here.  That would be with a distributor in a car. 

If all of the timing marks align properly, then it's not likely related to the timing belts or the valve adjustment.  It's something else. 

Quote from: Butcher on August 28, 2008, 10:45:00 AM
Having timing "off by 180" is more of a car thing.  If you rotate a distributor incorrectly in a car with a standard distributor, it can do that.  That refers to ignition timing, not valve timing. 

Since you never touched the pickup coils and the flywheel, ignition timing will not have been changed.  All you can change with a timing belt is when the valves open in relation to the position of the crank.  Valve timing.   

There is no "off by 180" option here.  That would be with a distributor in a car. 

If all of the timing marks align properly, then it's not likely related to the timing belts or the valve adjustment.  It's something else. 

My mechanical  background is in cars.

Is it not possible to have the valve timing 180 deg. off in relation to the crank ?
honestly, in the 10 years i've been wrenching on cars i've never had one major issue.
i get a motorcycle... and well... 

Quote from: Butcher on August 28, 2008, 10:45:00 AM
There is no "off by 180" option here.  That would be with a distributor in a car.

Actually, it has been known to happen with a Ducati engine. IIRC, what happens is that the person rotates the crank with the belts off the engine while doing valve checks on both the horizontal and vertical cylinders. When they reinstall the belts, the person rotates the crank to TDC of the exhaust stroke and not the compression stroke as it is supposed to be. They do this by not rotating through the next TDC of the horizontal piston, but only by aligning timing mark on the drive pulley with the engine case. When the belts are reinstalled, the cams are rotated to a TDC compression position instead of the TDC exhaust position that they should be with the crank in this position. This results in being 180-degrees off on cam timing and not spark timing, as you are thinking (spark is a condition based on the crank positioning and not the cam positioning).......I think I remember all of this correctly. 

IIRC from the times I've read of people doing this, the bike will run, but runs like absolute crap. It will not have any power, acts like it is running on one cylinder, and may even die.

Sound like you solved this one. 

Quote from: uclabiker06 on August 28, 2008, 11:54:00 AM
Sound like you solved this one. 

this sounds like it could be it. Now who wants bonus points for how to get things back to normal.

if i take the belt of the Horizontal belt and rotate the crank 360 deg. wile keeping the horizontal cam stationary
then replace the belt I should be ok.

Any input would be most appreciated.

and thanks again to all for their help.

Quote from: vboulderer on August 28, 2008, 12:20:49 PM
this sounds like it could be it. Now who wants bonus points for how to get things back to normal.

if i take the belt of the Horizontal belt and rotate the crank 360 deg. wile keeping the horizontal cam stationary
then replace the belt I should be ok.

Any input would be most appreciated.

and thanks again to all for their help.

You got it.

Line up the timing marks, pull the belt, rotate the crank 360 degrees, and put the belt back on with the timing marks lined up again.



But here's the question...

...are both cylinders off 180 degrees or just one?

Quote from: Rameses on August 28, 2008, 01:27:53 PM

You got it.

Line up the timing marks, pull the belt, rotate the crank 360 degrees, and put the belt back on with the timing marks lined up again.

But here's the question...

...are both cylinders off 180 degrees or just one?

well i just did the horizontal= bike runs for 4-5 sec. and dies.

i'm going to take the belt of the vert. cyl. rotate, crank 360 deg. replace belt, and see what happens. if i still got nothing i'll repeat the process on the horizontal (360 deg. crank rotation  with the belt off) and see if that one was good to begin with.   

if it's still no good, yeah well...   yeah

Quote from: vboulderer on August 28, 2008, 01:47:13 PM
well i just did the horizontal= bike runs for 4-5 sec. and dies.

i'm going to take the belt of the vert. cyl. rotate, crank 360 deg. replace belt, and see what happens. if i still got nothing i'll repeat the process on the horizontal (360 deg. crank rotation  with the belt off) and see if that one was good to begin with.   

if it's still no good, yeah well...   yeah

When you do the vertical, are you going to put the belt back on the horizontal while you turn the crank?

If you don't, that'll put the horizontal back where you had it.

belt back on Horizontal, belt off Vert. here we go...

well instead of rotating the crank i rotated the cam. bike ran for a bit longer but still died.
should i have set the bike to vert tdc using the sight window. and then rotated the crank with the belt off?

in my head it makes sense that rotating the vert. cam at horizontal tdc would do the same thing as rotating the crank at vert. tdc.

uh. my brain...

FYI if you take the spark plugs out you can feel a rush of air coming out on the compression stroke and you can look through it to make sure.