What does SP or SPS mean on the older bikes?

It stands for Sport Production or Sport Production Special. The early 1994 916SP bikes had Pankl titanium rods, twin fuel injectors/cylinder, bigger valves, larger header pipes and mufflers, etc. Just more goodies than the standard Tamburini designed 916. The 916SPS bikes actually had the 996 engine and crankcases for World Superbike homologation (a bike manufacturer has to produce x number of street going bikes before they can qualify it for FIM Superbike racing). The SPS bikes were made with that end use in mind. They also have more of the same stuff as the SP bikes. They were built in very limited numbers and weren't really intended for the street although many, such as mine and cdc's, ended up there. Many ended up as race bikes only. These bikes would eventually become the "R" models over time. 996SPS, 998R, 999R, 1098R...

Quote from: fastwin on September 30, 2008, 05:45:54 AM
It stands for Sport Production or Sport Production Special. The early 1994 916SP bikes had Pankl titanium rods, twin fuel injectors/cylinder, bigger valves, larger header pipes and mufflers, etc. Just more goodies than the standard Tamburini designed 916. The 916SPS bikes actually had the 996 engine and crankcases for World Superbike homologation (a bike manufacturer has to produce x number of street going bikes before they can qualify it for FIM Superbike racing). The SPS bikes were made with that end use in mind. They also have more of the same stuff as the SP bikes. They were built in very limited numbers and weren't really intended for the street although many, such as mine and cdc's, ended up there. Many ended up as race bikes only. These bikes would eventually become the "R" models over time. 996SPS, 998R, 999R, 1098R...

Thanks Brian, I often wondered this myself.

why don't the big 4 jap companies do the same, or is it because their bikes are already stupid fast?

Quote from: pipeliner1978 on September 30, 2008, 06:05:34 AM
why don't the big 4 jap companies do the same, or is it because their bikes are already stupid fast?

I think its more along the lines that they produce them in "stupid" numbers... not to put any of them down, but there is nothing SP or SPS about them. To produce a select number of SP/SPS japenese bikes would break the collective "mold" and doesnt make good production sense when your goal is to produce as many units as possible.

Quote from: Kevin848 on September 30, 2008, 06:07:53 AM
I think its more along the lines that they produce them in "stupid" numbers... not to put any of them down, but there is nothing SP or SPS about them. To produce a select number of SP/SPS japenese bikes would break the collective "mold" and doesnt make good production sense when your goal is to produce as many units as possible.

but there are alot of "squids" out there with lots of money, some of them have like $60K plus invested........
but that's not really my question, why only Ducati

Quote from: fastwin on September 30, 2008, 05:45:54 AM
(a bike manufacturer has to produce x number of street going bikes before they can qualify it for FIM Superbike racing).

I guess I just don't know the differences between all the different classes and what the regulations are..... maybe I should read every now and then 

Quote from: Kevin848 on September 30, 2008, 06:07:53 AM
doesn't make good production sense when your goal is to produce as many units as possible.

isn't that every companies goal?  More sales?  If Ducati had the same # of customers willing to pay for a new bike, They would attempt to produce higher #'s too right?  I always thought that the reason people bought the other bikes was more bang for your buck.......faster, cheaper to buy, definitely cheaper to maintain, not because the company made a million units...... 

Each Ducati is pretty much hand built.  The small factory in Bologna is not going to produce the same numbers as the Big 4

Quote from: bryant8 on September 30, 2008, 06:35:02 AM
Each Ducati is pretty much hand built.  The small factory in Bologna is not going to produce the same numbers as the Big 4

I understand that they have a smaller production line, but if they "sold out" of their bikes regularly, I think they would make changes to produce more........ that's not really the question I was looking to be answered here:

Quote from: fastwin on September 30, 2008, 05:45:54 AM
(a bike manufacturer has to produce x number of street going bikes before they can qualify it for FIM Superbike racing).

why is Ducati the only company that has to produce a "R" version to race in SBK?

Quote from: pipeliner1978 on September 30, 2008, 06:19:20 AM
but there are alot of "squids" out there with lots of money, some of them have like $60K plus invested........
but that's not really my question, why only DucatiI guess I just don't know the differences between all the different classes and what the regulations are..... maybe I should read every now and then 

Not sure man. I bet Brian knows!  

Quotewhy is Ducati the only company that has to produce a "R" version to race in SBK?

Maybe just to give the buyer that bit of exclusiveness or maybe because there is a small percentage of people that see it as a collectors item. Ducati races the 1098R in WSBK, Honda races the CBR... you can buy both but the Ducati is much closer to the actual super bike than the CBR. Hence the $40k price tag. Why they do it is anyones guess, but I am glad they do... now where are my lotto tickets!

I was watching a show yesterday on Speed and they were talking to this man that had this huge collection of cars. He had a Veyron, and a 1970's Ferarri GT that won Le Mans in 1977 that was worth 20 million dollars. They did a quick pan of his garage and sitting there next to a $500K Ferrari of some sort was a 999R... I was so proud! ... No jap crap in that shop buddy!

[discalimer]
This post was not intended to demean Japenese people or there very nice motorcycles 
[/disclaimer]

I could go on and on for hours about this but I won't. The Japs have made "special" bikes in the past. Suzuki made a GSXR750 Limited in 1986 that had the racing dry clutch (a $2,500 value!!!), the GSXR1100 front end and brakes and had a factory one piece solo seat ala 916s. I had one and sold it to the owner of Action Kawasaki/Suzuki in 2005... it had less than 600 miles on it and was bone stock! He said it was the nicest one in the country. Yamaha also made a limited edition FZR750 for the old 750cc World SBK days. Kawasaki has made a few. The old Z1R air cooled 1000cc, then in 1982 and 1983 the KZ1000R Eddie Lawson Replica (I still have my '83 model) and just recently they made two middleweights. The ZX6 and the ZX6RR. The ZX6 was a 636cc middleweight sportbike but the RR was a true 600cc bike with a special close ratio tranny and other goodies for 600cc racing worldwide. It was made in limited numbers. Honda is the one who has never liked to play the "special" game.

Quote from: pipeliner1978 on September 30, 2008, 06:32:07 AM
isn't that every companies goal?  More sales?  If Ducati had the same # of customers willing to pay for a new bike, They would attempt to produce higher #'s too right?  I always thought that the reason people bought the other bikes was more bang for your buck.......faster, cheaper to buy, definitely cheaper to maintain, not because the company made a million units...... 

I think Ferrari "sells out", but you don't see them busting @ss to make more...

Quote from: fastwin on September 30, 2008, 05:45:54 AM
It stands for Sport Production or Sport Production Special. The early 1994 916SP bikes had Pankl titanium rods, twin fuel injectors/cylinder, bigger valves, larger header pipes and mufflers, etc. Just more goodies than the standard Tamburini designed 916. The 916SPS bikes actually had the 996 engine and crankcases for World Superbike homologation (a bike manufacturer has to produce x number of street going bikes before they can qualify it for FIM Superbike racing). The SPS bikes were made with that end use in mind. They also have more of the same stuff as the SP bikes. They were built in very limited numbers and weren't really intended for the street although many, such as mine and cdc's, ended up there. Many ended up as race bikes only. These bikes would eventually become the "R" models over time. 996SPS, 998R, 999R, 1098R...

Quote from: fastwin on September 30, 2008, 08:28:26 AM
I could go on and on for hours about this but I won't. The Japs have made "special" bikes in the past. Suzuki made a GSXR750 Limited in 1986 that had the racing dry clutch (a $2,500 value!!!), the GSXR1100 front end and brakes and had a factory one piece solo seat ala 916s. I had one and sold it to the owner of Action Kawasaki/Suzuki in 2005... it had less than 600 miles on it and was bone stock! He said it was the nicest one in the country. Yamaha also made a limited edition FZR750 for the old 750cc World SBK days. Kawasaki has made a few. The old Z1R air cooled 1000cc, then in 1982 and 1983 the KZ1000R Eddie Lawson Replica (I still have my '83 model) and just recently they made two middleweights. The ZX6 and the ZX6RR. The ZX6 was a 636cc middleweight sportbike but the RR was a true 600cc bike with a special close ratio tranny and other goodies for 600cc racing worldwide. It was made in limited numbers. Honda is the one who has never liked to play the "special" game.

Unfortunately, Brian has his facts......right again as usual.   

To add just a little bit more to this, Yamaha recently did produce a limited number of R1's with , if memory serves me right, Ohlin's suspension and a $20K price tag.  Same motor and frame.  It was painted in the yellow and black bumblee bee colors that was distinctive of past Yamaha racers.

To recap recent past practices, at least as it concerns the 916 racing era, Ducati raced in WSBK using the 916 (but in 955cc, then 996cc motors.) against Japanese 750 cc inline 4s except for Honda which raced the 750cc V-4 RC30? then RC45.  Ducati made the 916SP with a 955cc motor in the factory racer because they were allowed up to a 1000cc (twins) against 4 cylinders.  I've seen one RC30 and think public ownership of RC45s are as rare as hen's teeth.  I think some people have them (in museums) but I have not seen one.  If they were ever sold as homologation bikes, that would have been the equivalent of the SPS/R bikes but I hear their current values are whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay on his knees begging. 

I don't think the Japanese find it necessary to build special bikes as people would rather build up their bikes than shell out $20K upfront for one, seems illogical but apparently a fact, except those who buy Ducatis and value them (or think they do) and are willing to pay for the "speciale" bikes. 

Any inaccuracies in the above will corrected soon enough I'm sure.

cdc