Quote from: someguy on September 01, 2008, 07:20:51 PM
No backup wrench was used. The break does not surprise me.

Me neither - this one was totally my fault due to a momentary oversight, although I'm still a bit surprised at how easily it broke.   Like a beer can, that cooler is.  I hate that sickening feeling of yielding metal.  Too often I switch between car wrenching and bike wrenching, and the bike wrenching obviously takes a muuuuuuch gentler touch and more care/analysis.

I'm not too keen on the JB Weld thing.  This one is going to ouch $$.

BK

Quote from: someguy on September 01, 2008, 05:26:08 PM
A still broken oil cooler. I'm not seeing a downside here.

IMO, the possibility of a massive oil leak is a downside.

Quote from: howie on September 01, 2008, 10:27:09 PM
IMO, the possibility of a massive oil leak is a downside.

Yea, especially when the leak decides to occur when your leaned over at 70 MPH.    I wouldn't want to take that chance.

Sorry to hear of your mishap,      but...that's fixable.  Try a radiator shop, or someone who knows how to weld aluminum. 

I just replaced the OEM oil cooler on my Bandit with a larger Earl's unit.  The "instructions" included a warning in large, bold letters to use two wrenches when tightening fittings to the cooler. 

Anyone have a good source for the fragile little green o-rings on the ends of the cooler lines?

Seems to be 8mm I.D. and 1mm sectional width.

Parts diagram does not break them out...

BK

Quote from: BK_856er on September 08, 2008, 11:25:32 PM
Anyone have a good source for the fragile little green o-rings on the ends of the cooler lines?

Seems to be 8mm I.D. and 1mm sectional width.

Parts diagram does not break them out...

BK

The dealer's diagrams were more complete and these were in stock, PN 88650151A   

BK

Everything is in and I have a few hundred miles on it over several rides.   [moto]

The cooler seemed to bring the M695 temps down at least 10% across the board.  Most of the hilly stuff is now about 210F and sustained cruising about 180F.  Those temps are with the DP kit, and for reference ambient is about 70-80F for my region right now.  Hard to quantify it, but I think it runs a bit stronger at the new lower temps.

The last detail is a pesky very minor leak in the region of the new engine case oil line fittings.  New crush washers, loctite 262, torqued to the 27Nm spec., cured for a week prior to running.  Weird.  It looked like it could have been coming from behind the belt cover directly above, so I pulled them off to check it out, but I think the wind just pushed it up there and then it collects and seeps down when it has a chance.  I have a very low tolerance for any sort of oil leak.

BK

That pesky minor oil leak started to get worse.  It's virtually impossible to determine the orgin, but the likely candidates are the new oil line nipples that screw into the crankcase with crush washers and loctite.

After a ride today I wanted to make sure the nipples were still "snug" with a 200F hot motor so I put a crow-foot on the torque wrench and found that it took about a quarter turn to reach 27Nm.  Maybe the "bit tighter" will stop the leak, if that's in fact where it's coming from.  BUT, more importantly, the red loctite 262 that I used was apparently doing absolutely nothing after the motor heats up!  According to the loctite spec sheet red 262 retains 85% of it's 40Nm break away strength at 257F, but I felt nothing whatsoever in terms of break away.

So maybe there is a real good reason why Ducati specs LOCK 5 (Loctite 128455) or Three Bond 1375B for this particular location.

Why is just a crush washer sufficient on the oil drain plug?  As  I write this, I'm thinking that unlike the drain plug, those nipples are sometimes under 80psi with hot oil and a bunch of vibrations going on for good measure...

BK

Clean the area real well and spray with aerosol foot powder.  The staining of the foot powder will help lead you to the exact part that is leaking.  Then disassemble and inspect each part.  Something may be cracked or there may be debris on the crush washer.  The Loctite will not work unless the threads are clean and oil free.

Quote from: howie on September 22, 2008, 04:26:37 AM
Clean the area real well and spray with aerosol foot powder.  The staining of the foot powder will help lead you to the exact part that is leaking.  Then disassemble and inspect each part.  Something may be cracked or there may be debris on the crush washer.  The Loctite will not work unless the threads are clean and oil free.

Are any aerosol foot powders especially preferred for this task?  The local drugstore has many options, with differing main ingredients (zinc oxide, talc, or cornstarch).  My head is spinning.  I would hate to do permanent harm to the finish out of ignorance....

BK

The cheapest.

I've got my cheap spray powder to confirm the origin of the leak.

I also bought two new crush washers (pn 42020064A) because step two will be take apart the nipples at the engine case, clean, inspect and reinstall.

The two specified thread lockers are apparently unavailable to humankind - thanks, Ducati!.  My dealer recommended Honda HT-2 instead (medium strength, oil compatible, good up to 400F).  I will be extra careful this time to remove all traces of oil and potential debris from the sealing surfaces.

I checked out a number of monsters on the showroom floor, and all them had nice big crush washers at the engine case nipples.  The ones that Ducati specifies for several models that I checked (see above), and supplies with the oil cooler kit, are MUCH smaller in diameter and only have 1.5mm contact/sealing width.  Hmmm.

BK

Here's a pic of the crush washer that came with the factory "plugs" that I removed compared to the specified crush washer.  The bikes that I saw at the dealer seemed to have the larger crush washer installed on the crankcase nipples.

Interesting developments!  After looking at more new dealer bikes, I decided to use the larger washers that Ducati seems to be installing on ALL the new bikes that I checked.  I also used the (higher temp rated) Honda thread locker.  I spent a good 2hrs cleaning the threads of residue and oil and torqued all fasteners to spec with a calibrated snap-on (CDI) torque wrench.

I let the thread locker cure for 72hrs before starting the bike, and then I idled it to operating temp to check for leaks.  Everything was dry.  Three days later I took it for a 20mile test ride.  Damn, still leaking!   

Now for the foot powder to determine the leak origin.  I initially skipped this step since I decided to change the washers anyway.  See the sequence of photos below, after warming up the bike and getting gas, and then after a series of 3mile loops with some WOT and generally trying to keep the revs high to build good pressure.  It's definitley not the fittings!  The last pic shows them to be dry with the oil pooling on the cooling fins above. 

I had previously taken off the belt covers to see if the leak was coming from behind, but there was no obvious evidence of that, and I thought the wind blast was just pushing it up there.  But oil can be very sneaky, so who knows.

So here's the quesiton.  Why would installation of the oil cooler cause such a leak to start?  Freak coincidence, or is there now pressure or flow in a new locaiton due to the diverter valve??

Does this look like a clutch side engine cover leak?

BK

Area coated with foot powder.  After warmup.  Notice the small spot near the lower part of the belt cover, just to the left of the braided oil line:


After a spirited 3mile loop:


Another few loops:


Oil starting to pool after about 15miles romping on it:


Fittings look nice and dry after completion of the test.  Just hint of something on the upper fitting, but I think that is probably from the small amount of oil used to lube the threads of the outer connector:

Pull the belt covers.  I suspect you have a crank or cam seal leak.

Quote from: howie on October 04, 2008, 06:24:35 PM
Pull the belt covers.  I suspect you have a crank or cam seal leak.

Will do.  I had the covers off a few weeks ago and a finger swipe did not show a leak trail "up there."    Sneaky oil.

The dealer replaced the heads in January, so maybe this leak is related to that job.

Fortunatley I still have one more month of warranty left, so the fix is likely going to be theirs to deal with.  I'm thrilled that I have been able to rule out the new oil line fittings.  I'm now a firm believer in the foot power technique.

BK