Hrrmm....and then I find a few dirt track articles that say to have a puke tank just incase - granted, they are talking about the belt coming off the water pump and running coolant temps around 325 deg to finish a race....

I'll be pulling my overflow tank out, and painting it black now I see, just incase   

I'll probably chicken out on leaving the fans off as well.

Potentially useless post/thread I just made, feel free to wipe it off the map

not useless. i learned something and i'm running an aircooled.

Just remember, there's a word for a closed, heated system.



























That word is "bomb."

I looked at the website - very interesting.  There is a link for use in motorcycles there.  I can see that it will expand some.  Maybe if the system is not completely full when it is cold, it could expand inside the system as the engine warms up?   There should be a way to calculate the expansion rate of this stuff.

http://www.evanscooling.com/main27.htm

Quote from: TAftonomos on October 03, 2008, 06:13:17 PM
I just got done painting the rad and cooler black on my S4Rt.  I used eastwood's rad paint for the fins, and some satin black duplicolor for the end tanks.  3-4 coats of each and everything is looking good.


I plan on using evans NPR-r coolant for my monster.  I was going to pull the plastic overflow bottle out and paint it black to make it less noticable, but now I'm thinking of ditching it altogether.

In addition, my fans have never kicked on, ever.  Highest the temp ever got was in the mid 90's here, and my temp climbed to 212deg one day while waiting for a wreck to clear.  99.9% of the time it's in the mid 170's....even when stopped waiting on the wreck @212 deg, the fans wern't on.

Loose the fans?

Loose the overflow?i wouldnt ditch the bottle.if you dont like the look what about a set of pods and then go to a wrecking yard and find say a yamaha 125 bottle which will fit neatly under your tank
out of view.

Whatcha think?

Quote from: Bill in OKC on October 04, 2008, 07:02:38 PM
I looked at the website - very interesting.  There is a link for use in motorcycles there.  I can see that it will expand some.  Maybe if the system is not completely full when it is cold, it could expand inside the system as the engine warms up?   There should be a way to calculate the expansion rate of this stuff.

http://www.evanscooling.com/main27.htm

There is, but it's not worth doing. You will be running a heavy liquid in the cooling system, and not enough of it until it expands. This is not a good plan.


Keep the fans, paint the overflow. Who knows-someday you may end up crossing the desert.

Quote from: someguy on October 05, 2008, 10:00:10 AM
There is, but it's not worth doing. You will be running a heavy liquid in the cooling system, and not enough of it until it expands. This is not a good plan.

That assumes an un-pressurised system.

If the increase in pressure caused by the expansion of the coolant is less than the setting of the cap relief, there will be no overflow.

It can be calculated, the problem is there is very little data on this product pertaining to its coefficient of thermal expansion. The coefficient for water varies with temperature (unlike solids) this would be true for aqueous ethylene glycol solutions also. I am not sure that polypropylene glycol has a linear relationship or varies in a similar manner to that of water.

The question to be resolved  "In a closed system what would be the final pressure caused by thermal expansion of 2.7 liters of polypropylene glycol contained within when heated to a temperature of 110°C " assume that the initial volume of 2.7 liters is at atmospheric pressure and a temperature of 20 °C, and that the volume is contained.

The answer would eliminate speculation on what might happen.

Anyone care to step up to the plate?

Quote from: Capo on October 05, 2008, 01:21:03 PM
That assumes an un-pressurised system.

If the increase in pressure caused by the expansion of the coolant is less than the setting of the cap relief, there will be no overflow.

It can be calculated, the problem is there is very little data on this product pertaining to its coefficient of thermal expansion. The coefficient for water varies with temperature (unlike solids) this would be true for aqueous ethylene glycol solutions also. I am not sure that polypropylene glycol has a linear relationship or varies in a similar manner to that of water.

The question to be resolved  "In a closed system what would be the final pressure caused by thermal expansion of 2.7 liters of polypropylene glycol contained within when heated to a temperature of 110°C " assume that the initial volume of 2.7 liters is at atmospheric pressure and a temperature of 20 °C, and that the volume is contained.

The answer would eliminate speculation on what might happen.

Anyone care to step up to the plate?

The OP was suggesting an unpressurized system.

Quote from: TAftonomos on October 04, 2008, 08:30:36 AM
Hmmm...might just be something I need to try.  I've spoken with a few other people who have run it....all say you really don't even need a rad cap except to keep the coolant from splashing out.

Also, no interest in stepping up to the plate. I have the math, won't bother with it-IMO it's a bad plan.

Just wondering, but at what point does the rad cap blow off pressure into the overflow container? 

Quote from: TAftonomos on October 05, 2008, 02:59:28 PM
Just wondering, but at what point does the rad cap blow off pressure into the overflow container? 

Depends on the cap-some come with different pressures.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cooling-system7.htm

http://newcarbuyingguide.com/index.php/news/main/2524/event=view

Thanks for the links, I know how a coolant system works.  But if the pressure required to release fluid from the cap is more than what the pressure with evans coolant would be, there should be no reason to run an overflow, right?

One of the benifits on their page is " a complely Hermetically Sealed system".  Thats airtight I believe.

I'm gonna run some in my 999.  Since it's got an aftermarket catch can it will be easy to see whats going on.

Here is a table:

http://www.mrc-eng.com/Downloads/Brine%20Properties.pdf

You need to have either an expansion tank or enough room in the radiator top tank like they used to use on old cars when the tank was on top and the cores ran vertical.  Even then, there was an overflow tube under the pressure cap in case the coolant got too hot to be contained by the reservoir.

Quote from: howie on October 05, 2008, 06:07:52 PM
You need to have either an expansion tank or enough room in the radiator top tank like they used to use on old cars when the tank was on top and the cores ran vertical.  Even then, there was an overflow tube under the pressure cap in case the coolant got too hot to be contained by the reservoir.

Table is a bit over my head, or pehaps I'm just looking for an easily explainable answer.  If the Evans waterless coolant boils at 400 deg (i'll never see more than half that), and runs with pressure in the 2-5 psi range, and the ducati rad pressure cap is a 15psi cap, why would any coolant be purged from the system if pressure never exceeded the cap's pressure?

Is it just to burp the system that I need an overflow?

Quote from: TAftonomos on October 05, 2008, 08:15:30 PM
Table is a bit over my head, or pehaps I'm just looking for an easily explainable answer.  If the Evans waterless coolant boils at 400 deg (i'll never see more than half that), and runs with pressure in the 2-5 psi range, and the ducati rad pressure cap is a 15psi cap, why would any coolant be purged from the system if pressure never exceeded the cap's pressure?

Is it just to burp the system that I need an overflow?

The reason you can run no or low pressure with the Evans Coolant is the high boiling point.  In a system using a 50/50 mix of ethylene glycol with 0 PSI the boiling point will be slightly over 212⁰ (I don't remember the exact number and I aint going to look it up).  Add 15 PSI and you raise the boiling point to about 265⁰.  If I remember correctly, the fans on your bike are set at 218⁰.  In traffic and in certain parts of the engine the temperatures can go well above 218⁰, so they use the pressure cap to raise the pressure , raising the boiling point to a safe level for both you and the engine.  If the pressure goes above 14 PSI the cap relieves excess pressure so the system doesn't burst.

The table is expansion rate, not pressure.  In other words, how much the coolant will increase in volume with temperature.  When the volume increases, it needs to go somewhere.  Since the table is for a 50/50 mix the numbers would not be accurate for straight Evans.  If you noticed, they use a 50/50 mix.  Why?  This is because propylene glycol is a poor medium for heat transfer  Water is.

Quote from: TAftonomos on October 05, 2008, 02:59:28 PM
Just wondering, but at what point does the rad cap blow off pressure into the overflow container? 

The cap on my S4R is marked with 1.5. I assume this is bar which is quite high.