I kept telling you guys it WASN'T going to be another "Monster".   

Quote from: derby on October 07, 2008, 08:31:13 AM
i doubt you'd complain about the v10 gallardo.

(and there are rumors of a v8 running around out there)

hey dont get me wrong. i only mention Lamborghini because it is my absolute all time fav and a goal in life to own one. i was saying the exotic nature of Ducati equates to Lambo.

Quote from: wbeck257 on October 07, 2008, 04:56:05 AM
I thought the whole point was because of the dry clutch?
Oh wait...

Yeah, make the beast with two backs technological advances and longer maintenance intervals. Oh wait, this isn't Harley...
I'm so confused... 

but is a ducati still a ducati if it no longer has the desmodromic system in it?

take out the desmodromic system, put in hydraulic or spring actuated valve train and its basicaly now no different than other italian makers like mvagusta, aprilia, or japanese brands like honda, kawa, suzuki.

the dry or wet clutch can go or stay though the dry is more the "ducati" thing, but take out the desmo and it no longer has any differnce than any other brand.

Quote from: sbrguy on October 07, 2008, 11:01:37 AM
the dry or wet clutch can go or stay though the dry is more the "ducati" thing, but take out the desmo and it no longer has any differnce than any other brand.

What about Bevel drive ducatis? Are they less of a Ducati?

You people make me laugh. Go make fun of Harley's because they have stayed the same for 100 years -- but make the beast with two backs with the heads of your Ducati and by god it is no longer a Ducati -- it is just a heap of jap bullshit.

Quote from: sbrguy on October 07, 2008, 11:01:37 AM
but is a ducati still a ducati if it no longer has the desmodromic system in it?

take out the desmodromic system, put in hydraulic or spring actuated valve train and its basicaly now no different than other italian makers like mvagusta, aprilia, or japanese brands like honda, kawa, suzuki.

the dry or wet clutch can go or stay though the dry is more the "ducati" thing, but take out the desmo and it no longer has any differnce than any other brand.

I will still be a Ducati because it is made by Ducati.

Personally I associate the engine sound and styling with Ducati, more than the valve actuation or clutch. Desmodromic is neat and unique, as is the dry clutch, but on bikes that I put a lot of miles on (like my Multi) I could do without either if it got me more reliability and longer (and cheaper) maintenance intervals.

I would be disappointed if they got rid of the desmo in the SBKs though...mainly from a race heritage standpoint. I wouldn't write off Ducati for it though if they replaced it with something better.

The aesthetic style of the bike is more what I'm concerened about though. Even though many say the 1098/848 looks Japanese...an examination side by side shows that they really aren't very similar. The Duc is thinner, sleaker, and less cluttered...just a better aesthetic design overall, even if there are Japanese hints in it. To me that is what makes a Ducati.

Quote from: wbeck257 on October 07, 2008, 11:13:46 AM
What about Bevel drive ducatis? Are they less of a Ducati?

You people make me laugh. Go make fun of Harley's because they have stayed the same for 100 years -- but make the beast with two backs with the heads of your Ducati and by god it is no longer a Ducati -- it is just a heap of jap bullshit.

Bevels were not unique to Ducati, but desmo is.

I agree 100%, that a non-desmo ducati is basically an Aprilla or Benelli.

mitt

Quote from: CDawg on October 07, 2008, 06:09:20 AM
I don't understand what the big brains at Ducati is thinking.

The top of the line Monster has always been a stripped down Superbike.  I don't understand the desire to rebrand a "new" line.  If I put on my cynical hat, the press release sounds like Ducati is ceding the naked bike category to the MV and Aprillas and instead trying to "create" a new category which is "naked superbike"...I mean come on, who care how the powerplant is cooled.

There's got to be more to this story behind Ducati's rationale that's not leaked yet...

The top of the monster line for 7 years or so (93 to 2001 I thing was the S4?) was an air cooled engine, not the water cooled one borrowed from their super bikes.   One could look at this as returning the monster line to it's roots.

I just hope they do an 848 version of this "fighter".

Quote from: wbeck257 on October 07, 2008, 11:13:46 AM
What about Bevel drive ducatis? Are they less of a Ducati?

You people make me laugh. Go make fun of Harley's because they have stayed the same for 100 years -- but make the beast with two backs with the heads of your Ducati and by god it is no longer a Ducati -- it is just a heap of jap bullshit.

amen, brother.
the way i look at it, it ceases to be a 'ducati' when the company changes names and is built by a whole new company.
the frame materials and geometry, the valve system, the v-configuration means jack squat.
unless you actually believe that an inanimate object has a 'soul', then you just need meds and some time on the couch.

Quote from: wbeck257 on October 07, 2008, 11:13:46 AM
What about Bevel drive ducatis? Are they less of a Ducati?

You people make me laugh. Go make fun of Harley's because they have stayed the same for 100 years -- but make the beast with two backs with the heads of your Ducati and by god it is no longer a Ducati -- it is just a heap of jap bullshit.

i've never made fun of a harley bc they have basically in a sense still using the same engine with the cam movement, i personally like that they have changed the valve head covers over time to have the  pan/flat/shovel/knuckle/block head styles but have kept the same basic engine but slowly updated it.

yes you are correct bevel drives are the older ducati's and yes they are ducatis still, but my argument is that the desmo system in the current ducatis are "archaic" and a very old style of doing things. 

when ducati on their own website right now is touting the advantages of the older style desmo system as what makes their bikes good compared to other brands, then remember that is what the current generation of new people to their brand are being told by the company.

so what i'm saying is that if the company then does a 180 and does away with their main advantage, then what makes it different?

if its just aesthetics then so be it, then it should should be saying "get our stuff bc ours is the best looking"

i personally like the sound of the ducati motor, take that away and put in a honda engine would i still buy it?  possibly bc i do liek the aesthetics overall of the monster, but i can't say with 100% certainty i would still buy a ducati if it didn't have the unique motor.

Next thing to go will be the 90 deg. orientation maybe Ducati will make a V-twin!!

I don't know how anyone can argue that duc aesthetics are still unique anymore when its clear they are taking design elements from the companies mentioned above like MV, Benelli and even some jap characteristics. If I wanted brutale styling I would have bought one. It seems like theyre just going with what is popular instead of being the leader like when they came out with the original monster. On that note it can be argued that it was the first real naked bike that sold in big numbers, its the icon of a genre.

When the new monster rumors came around I was really hoping they would come out with something unique, instead we got a Monster/Brutale love child...at least thats how I see it. As far as this hyperfighter is concerned it looks like a repackaging of a Benelli TNT.

Its all pointless now anyway because were talking about a PHOTOSHOP!!

agreed we all just guess in and shooting the sh&t right now.  just wait till the actual stuff comes out.. the threads won't stop ending then.. 

If Ducati abandoned Desmodromics for something like pneumatic valves or something else I might be ok with it. But I would be disappointed for Ducati to switch to a conventional set-up which they have spent decades decrying as being a "compromise" that doesn't offer the benefits that Desmo does. It's not so much the lack of Desmo, it's the caving in to the crowd. The adoption of a technology to which they have claimed superiority. A Ducati without Desmo would be like a front wheel drive BMW.

The thing is the desmo system doesn't have any benefit for our relatively low revving 2V street bikes. Now if they removed it from their GP bikes I would be shocked and seriously disappointed as from most accounts it is allowing the GP bike to rev higher than any other GP bike. Our 2V street bike...not so much...it's just a tradition thing, like the dry clutch.

I have no idea if desmo has any real benefit in the 4V SBK motors...I suspect not though, but I'd be disappointed if they got rid of it in the SBKs since that's a direct connection to the racing program.

the fighter is real and ugly imo, from several sources I have heard that it is a 1098 less the body work and throw on some risers and dirbike bars ie; same crap is the tuono, they are going to detune for more torque (this is not a bad thing) the bike is fugly

look at the pic in the lower left corner, its real