Quote from: Spidey on January 04, 2009, 08:02:27 PM

I hate this budget bullshit.   

What bites is that instead of the city providing a solution, they opt to punish for profit to fill a budget. That is bullshit.

People are driving facing nasty consequences because they can't make it work otherwise.
If it was safe to ride bikes, people would. If it was viable to take public traspo, people would. It's better than some places, but really is not that viable if you don't happen to be on the BART corridor. 

Better examples:
Moscow, Paris, New York, Tokyo, London, Vancouver, Toronto, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Berlin, Madrid, Florence, Portland... 

We got sprawl. That's the problem.

1)  It's not punishment.  It's enforcement.
2)  It's not for profit.
3)  What are the nasty consequences drivers are facing?
4)  It is safe to ride bikes.  Just not in the City.  But it's not safe to do anything in the City -- ride, bike, drive, walk, leave your apartment, etc.  It's an urban environment.  If people don't like it, they should leave and go hang out in Burlingame.  Or in the Inland Empire.  Or Ohio. 
5)  It is viable to take public transport within SF (which is what we're talking about).  Until last month, the Blonde lived without a car since 1996 (and no moto).  And I was without one for 5 years. 
6)   I doubt many of the "poor people" that Joe was talking about live in SF, have a car and commute to a job outside the City.  Otherwise, they'd live outside the city.  In fact, even if the person being ticketed is a commuter, then it's like I said earlier -->  that's the cost of having a car in SF.
7)  SF does not have sprawl.  Other parts of the Bay Area do, but that's a different issue.  We're talking about ticketing in SF to SF residents. 

Enforcement is a fine. How is that not punishment?
Where does that money go? Does it go to creating a solution or to paying meter maids? Seems like an exacerbation IMO.
A solution would be a different way to travel. More buses, trains, cheaper taxis, people movers, more dispersion of BART/MUNI,  bike/Ped only streets, rails to trails connections, bike paths that are actually connected from point A to B instead the mish-mash jumble they are now... It could be safe to walk/ ride bikes here.

There are many places it's ridiculous to take the public transit.
When I say ridiculous, I mean: If it takes 1 to 2 hours, and 2 bus changes to go 5 miles, that's not viable. I'm way too busy for that.
Why else are so many people driving facing sitting in traffic, parking tickets, parking lot fees, gas prices, bridge tolls, etc?
Parking citations don't provide a solution, they just make life a pregnant dog for the poor, the young & the students.
For people that can afford the cost of a car in the city tickets/parking fees are even less effective. 
Better alternatives change behavior.

eg. A new train just opened in Phoenix last week. 400,000 people road it the first day. Almost half a million cars stayed off the road the first day. That's a solution.

The utopia you describe sounds very nice.  Maybe I'll move there someday.  Will I be allowed to keep my motorcycle so that I can ride it the wrong way down the pedestrian & bike only throughways? 

   [moto]

Quote from: Spidey on January 05, 2009, 01:35:24 AM
The utopia you describe sounds very nice.  Maybe I'll move there someday.  Will I be allowed to keep my motorcycle so that I can ride it the wrong way down the pedestrian & bike only throughways? 

   [moto]

didn't you do that in valencia? 

Quote from: johnc on January 05, 2009, 09:23:39 AM
didn't you do that in valencia? 

Spidey does that on Valencia, 24th St in Noe Valley, and in his garage. He calls it riding.

Quote from: desmoquattro on January 05, 2009, 09:30:51 AM
Spidey does that on Valencia, 24th St in Noe Valley, and in his garage. He calls it riding.

Don't forget T-hill!!

Quote from: duckwrench13 on January 05, 2009, 09:52:53 AM
Don't forget T-hill!!

No, he just crashes into DanTheMan at T-HIll.

If it wasn’t for the dreamers and the shit-stirrers, there’d be stagnation.     

Quote from: Spidey on January 05, 2009, 01:35:24 AM
The utopia you describe sounds very nice.  Maybe I'll move there someday.  Will I be allowed to keep my motorcycle so that I can ride it the wrong way down the pedestrian & bike only throughways? 

   [moto]

Quote from: desmoquattro on January 05, 2009, 09:30:51 AM
Spidey does that on Valencia, 24th St in Noe Valley, and in his garage. He calls it riding.

no, i meant valencia, spain.  i believe there are still warrants out for spidey in spain.

Quote from: johnc on January 05, 2009, 12:23:49 PM
no, i meant valencia, spain.  i believe there are still warrants out for spidey in spain.

And to think, you wanted me to go instead?  Actually, I'm pretty lame. I'd probably sully the reputation of the MOB by being civil...most of the time.

Quote from: duckwrench13 on January 05, 2009, 12:54:44 PM
And to think, you wanted me to go instead?  Actually, I'm pretty lame. I'd probably sully the reputation of the MOB by being civil...most of the time.

Dunno...probably would have been a nice break for you...being in a foreign country and not having to blow anything up

Quote from: desmoquattro on January 05, 2009, 12:59:46 PM
Dunno...probably would have been a nice break for you...being in a foreign country and not having to blow anything up

nice break?  i don't think dan can visit a foreign country WITHOUT blowing stuff up 

Quote from: johnc on January 05, 2009, 01:02:16 PM
nice break?  i don't think dan can visit a foreign country WITHOUT blowing stuff up 

No, you're thinking of an AMA race...

Quote from: Desmostro on January 05, 2009, 11:30:37 AM
If it wasn’t for the dreamers and the shit-stirrers, there’d be stagnation.     

Sure.  But I don't understand how your solution will immediately close the $125m budget deficit for this year or--in three or four months from now--close a projected deficit of $576m for next fiscal year.