So I'm thinking about getting VDSTS. I looked at the CA-Cycleworks website and its surprisingly pricey ($195). Then I went to the tecnoresearch website. It looks like you can just download the software for free in the downloads section.

Am I missing something here? Questions below:

1) What am I paying for then? Is it just the cable to connect to the Ducati ECU??

2) Looks like there's an adapter that converts from Serial to USB that costs $45.00 on the CA-Cycleworks website. I can just go to monoprice.com and by a usb to serial converter cable for $6. Is there a difference??

Someone who has this software please clarify. I'm sure there's more that I'm missing.

Thanks in advance

Not sure, but Technoresearch wants the same $195.

http://www.technoresearch.com/Products/VDSTS-Motorbike/VDSTS_Motorbike_Pricing.htm

VDST

The VDST is the single-brand version of our diagnostic scan tool. It is in wide use as the official shop tool of multiple major motorbike manufacturers and professional technicians. It  is also available to individual motorcycle owners.

»Pricing

VDST-Standard

Supports ONE INDIVIDUAL MODEL  from the following »List

$195

Call Chris, I'm sure he will tell you all you need to know.

Don't have one yet, but I've heard reasonably positive reports from those who do.  Maybe I'm the one who's missing something but considering how much time and expense went into developing the software and the hardware and also how much $$ it can save by avoiding dealers,  I fail to see how $195 could be considered pricey.

Even though the software is  downloadable for free, it can't be used without the hardware and the cost of the software is incorporated into the price of the hardware, so  you're not  paying $195 just for the hardware. 

I suppose if you wanted to bad enough, you could make your own adapter device and use the free software with it - but I'm pretty sure by the time you got it working you would think the $195 price is very fair.

I'll get off my soapbox now, and sorry if I over-reacted or misinterpreted your post.

Looking at the pictures it looks like a simple connection from the pins from the ECU to DP9 Serial.  I can't see any micro controllers or anything.  Could be some in line resistors.  If that is true it doesn't make sense to charge for the cable and not the software. 

Yes it does take money to develop software, but I don't have an extra 200 bucks lying around.  And I'm the kinda guy that is used to fiddling around with an idle mixture screw. So being able to tinker around the with the ducs electronics would be really fun. But I don't intend to profit from this in any way.

Bottom line is, I won't lose any sleep if I can hack together a quick cable and seemingly as intended, download the software for free.   


*EDIT* Downloaded and installed the software.  I haven't tried to make a cable yet, But I get an error when it starts up.  "Hardware-Key not found"
So there may be something more to that hardware.

Uh...I have a 5.9M ECU - its 8 bit. I believe my nintendo in 1987 was 8 bit. Have you seen the self diagnostic connector? Its 2 wires. signal and ground.

If there's only 2 wires, most of the serial connector pins will be unused. I dont see this as rocket science. A simple continuity test with a multimeter should provide some good insight and help to gauge what connects where.

I've attached the wiring diagram for an 06 S2R 800. Item 17 is highlighted. Educated guess here but I doubt it would take more than 20 dollars to make the cable. I'll probably spend more money in gas going back and forth to my local electronics store.

Self Diagnostic Connector Wiring Diagram

Anyone got one sitting around I could take a look at? I live in the Bay area.

Ummm...I think the thing you buy is a piece of hardware that fits between the computer and cable. The little widget has has enough intelligence in it to supply a code on start-up that allows the software to run. Without it, you can't get anything to work. Lots of low-volume, specialized software in the engineering business works that way, anyway.

BTW, I think that's a good set-up. I've got no problem paying for useful products that are worth the money, and this way anyone who has the hardware key can install software updates etc. easily off the web as they become available.   

the version we have has a parallel port security dongle - the hardware key that's not found.  without that it's not going to work.  it connects into the pc or laptop via a serial port or a usb port using a usb - serial convertor.

the $195 is single model use and cheap.  the pro kit - the official mv tool - is about us$1,000, or over $2,000 as an offical mv part.  the axone - the official aprilia tool, cost us about au$6,000 with the upgrade to multibrand spec.  dds is about the same.

Ok so I downloaded and installed the "standard" version. Looks like everything is running. No hardware key errors or anything like that. Now if I could only get ahold of a cable for a few minutes.

My main issue is the battery and ground connections. The last thing I want to do is fry the ECU with improper grounding or polarity.

Quote from: EEL on January 27, 2009, 09:42:27 PM
If there's only 2 wires, most of the serial connector pins will be unused. I dont see this as rocket science. A simple continuity test with a multimeter should provide some good insight and help to gauge what connects where.

I've attached the wiring diagram for an 06 S2R 800. Item 17 is highlighted. Educated guess here but I doubt it would take more than 20 dollars to make the cable. I'll probably spend more money in gas going back and forth to my local electronics store.

Anyone got one sitting around I could take a look at? I live in the Bay area.

<ethics drift>

I bought the software/cable for a reason -- it's a good product and it's affordable.  I'd rather make sure companies like this continue to create and sell good products that those in the Ducati industry/individuals use on a regular basis.  It's nice being able to download the software and see how to utilize it as a "sales tool".  It's why I bought it to begin with.  For the minimal cost they are asking for a "standard" version w/connector cable, why cut the companies throat and possibly preclude them from offering something similiar in the future for the 696/1100 and other new Ducati's with the new ECU setup in them?  They could easily in the future only provide the "professional version" and none of us outside of a dealership could then afford.

I see better options here of inquiring if there are DMF discounts via vendors or doing a "group buy" to get 10+ systems ordered at once -- thus a vendor will give you a bigger price break.

And the answer is "yes" -- there is a security dongle on it.  (although those aren't that difficult to reverse engineer either)

<end ethics drift>

Quote<ethics drift>

Not a drift at all - ethics, or lack therof, is the core of this thread.  I don't think that using this forum to enable pirating of a legitimate and reasonably priced product is what the Flounders had in mind.  This thread oughta be locked.

I also think $195 for a proper diagnostic tool is pretty standard and reasonable.

I'm not the OP so this is bit of a threadjack......  but lets debate the ethics for a minute.  The software is available for download, by the company.  No piracy, no hack, no shared passwords, notta. It's not even listed in a support section intended for existing customers. if I supply my own cable I don't see anything wrong with that. 

It could be my ethics are tilted.  Wouldn't be the first time.    Its just so easy for tecnoresearch to not make this software available.  And if its is as easy as putting together a serial connection to the ecu.   Since I know how to create my own cable and most likely have all the pieces kickin' around my garage to make one, is paying 200 bucks for it reasonable?  Its a perspective issue.  two hundy for a program ... yes.  But not when its given away for free.

I draw the distinction at trying to make a profit, or anything else, that isn't personal use.   

For reference, I also copy CD's, steal my friends MP3's, toss cats in the air to see if they really do land on their feet, and steal candy from babies.   

QuoteThe software is available for download, by the company.  No piracy, no hack, no shared passwords, notta.

As I understand it there is a dongle required in order for the software to work when connected to an ECU.  The dongle will have to be hacked and hacking the dongle is to my mind at the least a breach of ethics.   If someone wants to do it quietly and in the privacy of their own  home, fine.  But doing it publicly here and inciting others to do the same isn't good for Technoresearch or any of us, as potential users.  As MotoCreations I think pointed out, Technoresearch will have to stop supplying the software demo for free and if faced with hacking may not spend the time developing a hobbyist product for newer ECU's which is not good for any of us.   So, in addition to being a purely ethical issue it's also a practical one.

Quote from: Langanobob on January 28, 2009, 01:46:04 PM
As I understand it there is a dongle required in order for the software to work when connected to an ECU.  The dongle will have to be hacked and hacking the dongle is to my mind at the least a breach of ethics.   If someone wants to do it quietly and in the privacy of their own  home, fine.  But doing it publicly here and inciting others to do the same isn't good for Technoresearch or any of us, as potential users.  As MotoCreations I think pointed out, Technoresearch will have to stop supplying the software demo for free and if faced with hacking may not spend the time developing a hobbyist product for newer ECU's which is not good for any of us.   So, in addition to being a purely ethical issue it's also a practical one.

IF it is "hacking" the dongle is required then I agree with you.  And it does appear to be the case on the "professional version."   I don't think making connection A to connection B  qualifies. Reverse engineering a code on the other other hand.

The software available is no demo.  It won't start up to demo the features. (again professional version)  And lacks all of the usual tale tell demo qualities, like grey'd out features, expiration dates, or other incentives to buy.

There is some vagueness of intention here. 

I don't know for sure, but I suspect the software that you can download from their site is 100% functional.
Then they sell the dongle.
That way they can actually run a business, and get paid for their product.

If they sold the software, and the cable was just an A-B connector, do you really think they'd end up selling more than one CD of the software?

That's how I'd do it, seeing how it's so difficult to get pirated software.