Quote from: TAftonomos on January 31, 2009, 11:54:40 AM
I still don't see why the move to 4 stroke.

Hippies lol.  Environmentalists hate 2-strokes, manufacturers are getting away from them in production bikes, etc

Quote from: TAftonomos on January 31, 2009, 11:54:40 AM
There is going to be a LOT more money tied up in a high rpm 4 stroke than a 2, and a lot more money spend on routine maintenance keeping those valvetrain bits in place as well.

they are supposed to be keeping tight leash on the technology to keep the costs from being astronomical, we'll see how well it works out in the long run.

I suppose everybody knows by now, but the Skip Barber/KTM school hired Jeff Haney as lead instructor.  He worked at Freddie's school for a long time, and I thought he was a great coach.

there's a thread about that somewhere around here

Quote from: billruiz on January 30, 2009, 06:04:52 AM
I remember seeing that on TV, but didn't get to see the whole thing. Was that The Long Way Round? I remember the rage and frustration...and the tearing up of posters. And to think I was saving up my pennies for a Super Duke...good thing I came to my senses.

Ignorance is bliss I guess. You don't know what you're missing. Imo KTM has been a good company to me and they back their products. The Superduke and the R model are superior bikes in every way. If I ever wad up my GSX-R 750 it'll be replaced w/ a RC8...

If I was the CEO of KTM I wouldn't have given two bikes + spares to a couple of actors (one with nearly no experience at all) just so they could video tape a very daunting trip. Of course we all know that it turned out to be a much larger production than that but from KTM's view they've always gotten their publicity from Paris/Dakar so why would they give a couple of bikes to two actor yahoos, one of which has more money than he knows what to do with. Ewan probably made more money than the price of a KTM Adventure while I've been typing this fer chrissakes....why the hell should he get one for free?

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=35467

Quote from: gm2 on February 02, 2009, 03:03:31 PM
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=35467

To be expected by many other companies as well. Harley has cut 1,100 heads as well. There will be others, nobody is immuned these days.

yeah, of course.  but killing the ama red bull rookies program is kinda unforgivable.

Why? Two strokes are dead from a racing perspective. The 250 class is now 600 4 stroke and KTM doesn't make an I-L 4 so they chose to get out because it no longer was a benefit to anyone, including the participants. What this actually did was present an opportunity for one of the I-L 4 manufacturers to step in and none of them did, even though they're vastly larger corporations than KTM. So imo KTM should be praised for what they've actually done in the last years.

Quote from: Rotten Randy on February 02, 2009, 03:20:56 PM
Why? Two strokes are dead from a racing perspective. The 250 class is now 600 4 stroke and KTM doesn't make an I-L 4 so they chose to get out because it no longer was a benefit to anyone, including the participants. What this actually did was present an opportunity for one of the I-L 4 manufacturers to step in and none of them did, even though they're vastly larger corporations than KTM. So imo KTM should be praised for what they've actually done in the last years.

there's 2 more years of 250 GP racing and the 125s aren't going away at all. 

more to the point: when you make a promise to a series, promoters, and much more importantly, a bunch of KIDS, and then at the last minute you pull out, you haven't created an "opportunity".  no manu is going to pick up the series from scratch two months before it begins. 

they in large part promised a bunch of young kids the opportunity of a lifetime and then pulled the rug out from under 'em.  if they were so wise they would have made that announcement along with a contingency plan.  no back-up, no 'sorry, we've fu@ked up", no nothing.  sorry kids, go spit.

praised my ass. 

Quote from: gm2 on February 02, 2009, 03:03:31 PM
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=35467

Sweet.  Another company that is making a profit, but still laying people off.  Of course, they all blame the economy, because it couldn't possibly be greed.  Why not weather the storm with reduced profits for a couple years?  Aren't they (everybody, not just KTM) just exacerbating the conditions they blame for their troubles?

Quote from: Cider on February 02, 2009, 06:06:07 PM
Sweet.  Another company that is making a profit, but still laying people off.  Of course, they all blame the economy, because it couldn't possibly be greed.  Why not weather the storm with reduced profits for a couple years?  Aren't they (everybody, not just KTM) just exacerbating the conditions they blame for their troubles?

because public companies have to answer to their shareholders. if the shareholders don't see value in the company, they'll dump their shares, which will actually devalue said company.

Quote from: Cider on February 02, 2009, 06:06:07 PM
Sweet.  Another company that is making a profit, but still laying people off.  Of course, they all blame the economy, because it couldn't possibly be greed. 

"Greed is good."  - Gordon Gecko.  It's the tragedy of the commons.  Why should KTM not act in their own self-interest when everyone else will?   ('cept for the Rookies Cup --- that's pretty f'n inexcusable).

Quote from: Spidey on February 02, 2009, 07:45:19 PM
"Greed is good."  - Gordon Gecko.  It's the tragedy of the commons.  Why should KTM not act in their own self-interest when everyone else will?   ('cept for the Rookies Cup --- that's pretty f'n inexcusable).

They should act in their own self-interest, and (in this country at least, dunno about Austria) they have a legal responsibility to do so.  I'm just questioning short-term benefits vs. long-term costs.  Costs like increasing the newly unemployed who definitely won't be able to afford a new KTM

OK, mainly I'm just whining.

Quote from: Cider on February 02, 2009, 07:53:26 PM
OK, mainly I'm just whining.

Which is pretty much what the Racer's Forum is for.      

Since we're talking about the Rookies Cup, I'm interested to see what, if any, long-term crap KTM takes for that move.  I doubt people will have very long memories, especially since KTM doesn't race superbikes in the US.

Quote from: gm2 on February 02, 2009, 03:45:59 PM
there's 2 more years of 250 GP racing and the 125s aren't going away at all. 

more to the point: when you make a promise to a series, promoters, and much more importantly, a bunch of KIDS, and then at the last minute you pull out, you haven't created an "opportunity".  no manu is going to pick up the series from scratch two months before it begins. 

they in large part promised a bunch of young kids the opportunity of a lifetime and then pulled the rug out from under 'em.  if they were so wise they would have made that announcement along with a contingency plan.  no back-up, no 'sorry, we've fu@ked up", no nothing.  sorry kids, go spit.

praised my ass. 

Well that is the way of the world these days isn't it, I agree w/ many of your points. Another point I haven't heard from any report yet is that, well maybe KTM pulling out may have had something to do with that kid from Bermuda dying last season while qualifying. I can't imagine it would have been good for KTM to continue sponsoring the series perhaps for it to happen again? I'm surprised that I haven't heard of KTM or Red Bull being sued over it. For something like that to happen to a kid again, this year, would have been disasterous for everyone involved.