I'm hoping for option 3 at this point.

The bike is still insurable unless I am missing something.  I upped to aftermarket parts value on it by a few thousand with my insurance company.


I'm hoping to speak with the guy today.

Quote from: printman on May 21, 2008, 02:38:11 PM
Why are you using a 530 chain? Turbo? 

Honestly, I've done a ton of research and reading on this board and TOB to try to figure out the correct parts but on this one I didn't know so I told him to order the correct one.

Did he not?  What effect will this have?

Its heavy. Heavy as shit.

I run a 520 on my M900.

Factory issue is a 525. 520 can and is used on everything, but say... 1098's.

Its defines the 'size' of the chain: 520/525/530 are the options. Left to right, lightest to heaviest.

Just think, that suckers bullet proof now, but you are dragging extra weight for absolutely no reason. It provides no benefits to your bike

where did he find 530 sprockets to match?  i have never seen them.

I'm sure Chris at CA-Cycleworks can order 'em. Don't know who (in their right mind) stocks them though.

i will bring this up when I talk to him.  I doubt that it is actually a 530 in this case, but knowing everything else he has f'd up it wouldn't surprise me.

Why don't you WALK away?  Change that, RUN away!  Let him have the bike.  For what he's charging you could buy a new or one year old bike.   There are plenty of great bikes you can buy for that price.  

If you really want to f___ him, go down there and say you're ready to pay.  Say you want to hear it one more time, take the key and break it, throw away the other keys (red included), burn the title, tell him to f___ off and walk.

If you owe the bank take your check for the mods and pay it off, get another loan and start over.  You have no way of knowing that the paint won't flake, the suspension is right, or have any guarantees on the bike. You pay him $4k, $5k, $6k to get the bike back and you have no idea what you'll need to pay to fix his B.S.  Most of the mods on your list are a complete waste of money for a first time rider. At this stage of your riding life there are better options.  Snap out of it, walk, walk, walk, walk....

Quote from: bigtime on May 23, 2008, 06:08:35 AM
Why don't you WALK away?  Change that, RUN away!  Let him have the bike.  For what he's charging you could buy a new or one year old bike.   There are plenty of great bikes you can buy for that price.  

If you really want to f___ him, go down there and say you're ready to pay.  Say you want to hear it one more time, take the key and break it, throw away the other keys (red included), burn the title, tell him to f___ off and walk.

If you owe the bank take your check for the mods and pay it off, get another loan and start over.  You have no way of knowing that the paint won't flake, the suspension is right, or have any guarantees on the bike. You pay him $4k, $5k, $6k to get the bike back and you have no idea what you'll need to pay to fix his B.S.  Most of the mods on your list are a complete waste of money for a first time rider. At this stage of your riding life there are better options.  Snap out of it, walk, walk, walk, walk....

I can tell your view is generally a realist with the glass perhaps just a touch more empty, but in this case I feel you may be going overboard a bit.

The mods that I am doing are happening because I want them to, because I want to change my bike into what I want it to be.  It doesn't matter if they have me 2 seconds on a laptime, what matters is that I am happy with them and enjoy them and like the look and feel of my bike and am riding something that I can stay on for a long time.

While I have made some mistakes in this learning process, it is just that.  I am not faultless in this equation and I need to understand that this lesson is going to cost me.  With that being said, I am not going to walk away from something that I have invested a LOT of time and money into just to spite someone else.  I am going to try every avenue possible to acquire my property as fairly as possible with an interest in time and money, in some particular order.

Sorry to hear about all your frustrations with this ... I can feel for you.  I work on the other side of the desk on the automotive side, so I'd hate to see a customer of mine go through the same things.  That being said...  First thing ... going forward, PUT EVERYTHING INTO WRITING.  And if you have a phone conversation, put it into writing as a letter as a "follow up as discussed" and mail it to him.  You want to document this.  

I've been involved where a customer is doing a classic restoration, the process is that the customer approves up to a certain amount, the work is done to that amount, and additional authorizations are required.  Shops don't have Carte Blanche unless you tell them that.  It sounds to me you were being reasonable by giving a deposit and that was where the initial

Although we all seem to know in our heads how long it takes to do a certain job, ie. 30 minutes to change the bars, etc, these are all just personal opinions.  I would suggest going to either a reputable shop or the dealer, they all have standardized systems to be able to look up each.  Manufactuers do provide this to their dealers, and I have seen my local Ducati dealer in their DMS system pick up labor ops for each item to total the time required for the job.  This will give you a reasonable basis for each line item for the amount of time to be charged and it is no longer an "opinion." per se.    

Charging you to clean his shop, that's ridiculous, that's already built into his labor rate and is a cost of doing business, period.  The Hazmat is separate from shop materials, although to me, the shop materials is a BS charge but some states allow it.

My thoughts are that I would try and negotiate with him (you want to show that you're the one being reasonable) and ask him to substantiate with time punches any labor times that are significantly more than what the dealer guide tells you.  And if the total was at least close to being within reason, pay the bill with the credit card, and dispute it later with the credit card company providing your documentation that you've been trying to be reasonable and he is trying ti rip you off.  The goal here is to try and get your property back so you can get it to someone who car do the work properly. 

If all else fails, then go to small claims court, but you want to show the judge you've been the one who is fair and reasonable. 

Quote from: paradisecity on May 23, 2008, 05:22:16 AM

I'm hoping to speak with the guy today.

Seriously?  I wouldn't communicate verbally with him any more without a witness.  In writing by certified letter would be much better.

A couple suggestions - we need a lessons learned sticky, and possibly a "how to not get screwed by a mechanic FAQ" once this is all done.  Also, I nominate your bike for BOMB.  I don't care if we have to look at a pile of parts against a backdrop of a smoldering repair shop, I expect a moment of well-deserved glory for your bike.

As for dealing with this guy from here on out, I am going to go back to my original post and suggest that you don't give this guy any reason to be defensive and justify these ridiculous charges.   I would be afraid that once you get him defending himself it will be impossible for him to back down - If challenged, people find creative ways to justify the things they think, no matter how stupid.   Right now, pointing out, for example, that you have a fuel injected bike and you are being charged for carb work is only going to make him feel like a schmuck and provoke him to prove himself as a legitimate mechanic/business man/non-schmuck.  Even though you would be entirely justified in doing this, it does not serve the purpose of getting this thing behind you.  This may not be the way you want to resolve it, but it seems to be the shortest distance between two points.

If I was in this scenario, I would not get into specifics.  I would appeal on the basis that the original amount and the current charges are not anywhere close and push for a "settlement" amount.  I just don't think itemizing the bill is going to get you there - you may win some battles, but you risk losing the war.  I am not saying don't get a lawyer, especially if you exhaust all other options, but god:foxholes as lawyers: internet forums.

Good luck to you...

Quote from: hbliam on May 22, 2008, 04:39:57 PM
2-All you have is a verbal contract which is your first HUGE error.

Not true.

Once again, that depends on state law if verbal contracts are binding.

Quote from: pt33 on May 20, 2008, 08:23:01 PM

The fact that he charges $55/hr, says to me that there is a big possibility that it actually took the guy 40-50+ hrs to get that done. 

You get what you pay for 

That is not true at all.

My mechanic charges 40/hr for all work (including dyno time.....which he has in his shop)

He is a reputable race engine building mechanic and a former racer himself.

He is very legit, very good, and reasonable pricing.

Quote from: cyrus buelton on May 23, 2008, 08:45:40 AM
Not true.

Once again, that depends on state law if verbal contracts are binding.

binding or not, still a huge error if you can't prove a verbal agreement existed.

All, please review and comment on the attached before I send it over.  Thanks


John,

After our discussion on Monday night where you told me to get an estimate from another mechanic, I asked and paid for Stuart at Flightcycles to provide an estimate of the work needed to be done from the beginning since the estimate you gave me was from the beginning.  I am providing this estimate to you here.  As I stated before, Stuart is an award winning Ducati builder and mechanic whose reputation is excellent.  I went from memory and provided a long list and put it in a word document.  After you sent me your itemized invoice via fax, I passed that along as well in case I had forgotten anything that needed to be done so that he would not be leaving anything out.  Stuart told me (and I’m sure would relay to you if you asked) that he tried to shoot a little on the high side because he has only seen pictures and does not have the bike in front of him, but feels confident in this estimate.  He charges a labor rate of 10 dollars per hour more than your shop, and 20 dollars more per hour for parts that he purchased through his shop.

Please call me once you have had a chance to look this over.  Since you are threatening to place a lien on my bike in the near future despite having provided me with the bill two days ago (a bike which I have not been told has been finished yet) I would ask that you please make this a priority and contact me back as soon as possible.

Thank you




Tom Paradis