It sounds like maybe another company SHOULD have been there!! Sounds like it's time for a little competition for Hart...hmmm...new career? NAH! he he

Quote from: ato memphis on November 03, 2009, 06:07:06 PM
I didn't take the time to adjust the color on these yet, but I will do so shortly. We definitely didn't bring an appropriate lens.

Well, these two came out pretty well! Just look at the fine pattina on that fine Rock Bottom Racing RV and the stylish UPRIGHT positioning on that rider Good stuff!! 

Ok, I  know there are those who want to know and see so here goes. Good bad or indifferent don't be shy on the comments he he he...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfphBivtuVY

Man, that sucks.  Been there, done that (twice in fact just in differrent corners  ).  Two observations: get your braking done earlier (before you turn in for the corner) and always look where you want to go. 

My .02. YRMV 

Yeah, it looked like you were upright way past the turn in point.  Looked like you went off track across from your clip point, which is on the opposite side of the track.  Were you braking hard?  Hard to tell on my phone...   

I may not have had the time to tell you what was going on before. I posted this last lap because the rider in front of me would not let me through. I was faster in the corners but he'd gun it in the straights. I finally had the chance on the run up to the faux paux. As I came around him I had been following Jeff's line as much as possible. I had his line coming into Big Ben on the outside. I had a clear way around until the group in front of me slowed way down to make the turn and came wide in front of me. My intention was to go around on the outside which I had plenty of room. If I had just leaned on over and ridden the line out I would have crashed into the back of the guy in front of me because he moved over into my line. I had no where to go. And yes, I was hard on the brakes which is why I didn't go over hard.
Up until this incident I had been riding very well through the corners and passing bikes in the straights. What I should have done was to just stop and not try to continue the line around the outside.

I need to go back out this weekend something bad!! 

Jeff plainly stated not to try to pass in the turns in beginner group. If you couldn't get by, you could have went through the hot pit to get a gap between you.

Yeah, I got bumped out of the Beginner group after I passed a group of 6 or so in Big Bend... whoops

I have a lot of work to do to get up to speed with the 848, I felt very rusty.  But by the end of the day I felt better in seat.  The new clutch was great, but I had to learn my brake points all over again, since I was able to stomp the gears down and not worry about the rear.  I can brake much later than I was on Sunday

Quote from: lilmonster on November 04, 2009, 12:35:40 PM
Jeff plainly stated not to try to pass in the turns in beginner group. If you couldn't get by, you could have went through the hot pit to get a gap between you.

Yeah, I think one of the spookiest things for riders is the first time you have a bike get stuffed underneath you when in a corner and not expecting it.  In one respect since beginners aren't leaned over very far, its not the end of the world, but it can really catch you out of sorts if its never happened to you before.  After a couple times, you get comfortable with corner traffic and adjusting line accordingly, but its definately a safety concern with folks that are still getting their feet wet and having a hard enough time with lines, track vision, and confidence.

Talking about braking points and lean angle brings up a question I've had regarding knee dragging...

I took a wild off track excursion at Cresson a while back because I misjudged my corner entry speed and had to front-brake hard.  Of course when I did, the bike stood up and shot straight off the track - at only a slightly reduced speed I might add    


So my question is: do track riders drag a knee to accurately judge lean angle or are they hanging off so they can off-set the gyroscopic effect of trail braking?  Combination of both?  Or Option No. 3, The Combo Platter, because it just looks pretty damn cool?  

I've always thought hanging off was to preserve lean angle and thus tire contact patch - keeps the bike more upright, but it turns the same as if you were on it but leaned way the heck over.

I know part of the bike standing up when I am all over the brakes also has a lot has to do with my sometimes panicked glances at the ditch/curb/shoulder/field/cowpie/barn/leo (not dicaprio)

Since I know nothing about track days or riding fast I can't help you Lisa. The only reason I dangle my leg like Rossi is because my knee hurts and it needs to be straightened out.

Knee draggin is really a product of three things imo.  Number one, if you're hanging off the bike and are cornering hard enough, your knee is going to touch the ground regardless unless you are just trying to hold it against the bike.  Its also a good feeler for how deep your lean angle is and in expert hands can be used to help save front end slides or when the bike is just pushing in general.

Hanging off itself, as said above is to preserve lean angle so to speak and also helps lower the c.o.g. of the bike/rider combo enabling a more stable cornering environment.  Its also an evolution of style, as it came hand in hand with the introduction of radial tires and better compound tires.  In the old days, the tires couldn't support lean angles like today anyway, so there was no need for hanging off.  It was more of a point and shoot strategy.

I had a few moments this last Sunday myself with braking, although I was really starting to push the limits of my late braking abilities in order to make up time coming into the corners.  Once the rear starts to come off the ground, I think braking force is 100% lol.  You can definately still corner while under braking, but the effort to get the bike turned and stay turned increases by quite a bit.  I know for a fact I can enter corners faster than I do, its just a matter of practice, more body position improvement, and confidence.  Tip that thing into the corner and trust the bike!

I could have done things a bit different folks I agree. I was trying very hard to do what I was taught in the RideSmart track days I've attended recently.  If you'll go back and look at the video again you'll see the fellow in front of me putting on a lean like he's Ben Spies! He's honkin on the straights but he's going way slower than I am in those corners. I was hanging back letting him go as not to break the rule of no passing in the corners in the beginner group. I had two chances to take him but did not for fear I would be black flagged. So the issue of riding through was not necessary. Yes, I could have done that but  knew that all I had to do was to wait till BB to get around. The thing about getting stuffed by slower riders as happened in this instance is that you have no control over what they do. As stated earlier I was braking hard enough to stop but I was trying to maintain my line following Jeff around the outside. When the door was closed I had no where to go but stand the bike up and ride it through the grass. I had already made my decision what to do before getting to the corner. Anywhere else on the track would have been fine because it would have been dry but this one particular place is where the water goes over the track at the start of that curve out of Big Ben and there was a little creek that I bumped over which made me .... fall over.  I was totally embarrassed too  But then I try to give tob something to talk about too  (peace guys  )

If I had not already had two other recent track days and 30+ years of riding the results could have been different

  I really like the Ernie Kovacs style soundtrack with your video Red ! You may have run out of track but you kept your sense of humor!  Sorry to interrupt - back to the relative merits of knee dragging...