Don't Worry Mr S2R, it will happen, they will see the massive amount of Money they can rake in from the Camera's
with minimal amount of effort and Expense and it will then start to roll out in South Australia.
All under the guise of Safety and "For our Protection"

I'm still waiting for someone in Victoria to take Vic Police/Victorian Government to court because the ADR's allow a
10% tolerance on vehicle instruments, but Vic Pol don't even allow 2 0r 3% when in comes to speeding.

So you could be sitting on 100k's, but your actually doing 103k's and you get pinged, how is that your fault?

Quote from: CairnsDuc on May 01, 2010, 06:53:54 PM
Don't Worry Mr S2R, it will happen, they will see the massive amount of Money they can rake in from the Camera's
with minimal amount of effort and Expense and it will then start to roll out in South Australia.
All under the guise of Safety and "For our Protection"

I'm still waiting for someone in Victoria to take Vic Police/Victorian Government to court because the ADR's allow a
10% tolerance on vehicle instruments, but Vic Pol don't even allow 2 0r 3% when in comes to speeding.

So you could be sitting on 100k's, but your actually doing 103k's and you get pinged, how is that your fault?

yeah I know what you are saying there - I guess this is the benefit of the small but vocal population of SA - if the govt (as in state) introduced more cameras there would be a backlash, but there will be an increase of "police presence"

I too have wondered how Vic can maintain that sort of near impossible tolerance.  Ok the onus is on you to maintain your vehicle in roadworthy condition, but that would mean that every time you changed tyres you would have to get your speedo recalibrated - an expense not everyone would pay for - it is a ridiculous expectation!!

Here is one way the Vic authorities screw the populace!! And I HAVE seen this one with my own eyes! 

2 camera fines,

Fine No.1 was for 64 kph in a 60 zone, take off the generous 3 kph leeway and bingo! Pay up driver!!

Fine No.2 was for 63kph in a 60 zone, safe you might think?? Then you'd be wrong! On this one they only took 2kph off which of course made it 61kph, and you guessed it, again "Pay Up Driver"!!   

I suggested this guy challenge this one in court but after weighing up the time off work for the hearing, the required legal representation etc, etc he just paid up without even a letter complaint!! 

It is interesting to theorise as to how many road users get screwed like this and just pay up?? Guvmint and Plods rely on public apathy and the "Cant fight City Hall" attitude, to just cough up the drachmas without contesting the infringement or complaining!

But with the amount of people getting F'd in the A in Victoria, Something has got to give eventually.
Some body will fight back and win. and then the floodgates will open.

Or if everyone took the fines to court, they would clog the system up for years.

Quote from: Mr.S2R on May 01, 2010, 07:08:28 PMI too have wondered how Vic can maintain that sort of near impossible tolerance.  Ok the onus is on you to maintain your vehicle in roadworthy condition, but that would mean that every time you changed tyres you would have to get your speedo recalibrated.....

This isnt really the issue.  What CairnsDuc is saying is that ADRs demand that the instrument you use to measure your vehicle's speed needs by law to be no more accurate out of the factory than +/- 5% (a 10% tolerance).  Yet VicPol dont allow the driver 5% over before you get a ticket in the mail.  So the entirely reasonable question is this:  How can you be expected to maintain your speed to an accuracy greater than that required of the speedometer?  

Catch22.  The speedo can be inaccurate but the driver cannot.  How does the driver know exactly how fast they're travelling? By looking at the speedo....  

You guys (in Victoria anyway) may not have noticed, but cops have not maned (personed?) camera cars for a decade or more...

Labor governments have made a big and even bigger business out of this baby (cash cow tax grab) and there weren't enough coppers to go around so they use contractors on way less $$$ to person the cars and further increase proffits!!!

Ita

Quote from: ungeheuer on May 02, 2010, 03:10:04 AM
So the entirely reasonable question is this:  How can you be expected to maintain your speed to an accuracy greater than that required of the speedometer? 

See now you are just being silly ... you are not expected to 'maintain your speed' ... you are simply not allowed to 'exceed' the limit. If your equipment is not up to the task then you need to make allowance for that ... ie. drive 5% below the speed limit.

Quote from: Betty on May 02, 2010, 11:06:13 AM
See now you are just being silly ... you are not expected to 'maintain your speed' ... you are simply not allowed to 'exceed' the limit. If your equipment is not up to the task then you need to make allowance for that ... ie. drive 5% below the speed limit.

I agree with you Betty - whilst we could argue tolerances etc at the end of the day the Police are betting on human nature.  The Police are going on very good probability that people will not pay precise attention to their speedo, especially in more modern vehicles as there is an expectation that speedos are accurate, therefore be over the limit.  They (the Police) are simply trying to force people to drive slower in the expectation of less risk of accidents, as opposed to teaching people actual car control.......

Quote from: Betty on May 02, 2010, 11:06:13 AM
See now you are just being silly ... you are not expected to 'maintain your speed' ... you are simply not allowed to 'exceed' the limit. If your equipment is not up to the task then you need to make allowance for that ... ie. drive 5% below the speed limit.

And there is the Rub, how would I know that my Speedo is wrong/inaccurate?
This is the problem with the system in Victoria, and it still amazes me that people keep putting up with it!
I frequent a number of Forums, and the complaints/Topics/Posts about the system in Victoria
keeps rising everyday, but I wonder how long before the general public will stand up and say enough is
enough, I'll be driving through Victoria in about 10 weeks time, and I am dreading the 284 Klm's from the
NSW Border to the Spirit of Tasmania Ferry. I will be watching my Speedo and GPS/Nav speed like a hawk.

I have figured the only way to be safe (From the Cash Grab) in Victoria....
- Subscribe to Speed Camera service on TomTom GPS (This does not help with the mobile Cameras, but every
bit of extra information helps avoid a happy snap  )
- Watch your Speedo like a hawk.
- If the speed changes down, be at that lower speed before reaching the speed zone sign.
- If the speed goes up, do not dare speed up before reaching the speed zone sign.
- Set the Cruise control below the posted speed limit by about 3 to 4 k's
- Don't forget to Smile for the Camera (Have best Leather Gimp suit on for the Occasion)
- Keep Lube/Condom in the Glovebox just in case I commit the horrendous crime of being over the limit by 1 or 2 K's 

I do feel that the only person perfect enough to fall within the margin of error consistently would be GOD.

For the rest of us.....Cha Ching.

No doubt this argument will go on and on and on and on  
.....but teaching "stupid people" to drive would be most awesome!

I have a problem with a "Private" (Read, profit based company) running the speed cameras!! Their profits are based on their performance......arnt they?? Things that make you go hmmmm?




If I get a piccie, I....
1.wait the 28 days and then ask for an extension....usually another 28 days.
2. Then I choose to take it to court.
3. The the Camera Orifice has to cancel the Infringement Notice and notify me of said act.
4. Then they have to set up a court date and get all the ducmentation together.(eg. Sworn affadavit from camera operator including their qualifications, documented proof of camera calibration, infringement details, a FREE picture (Heh, saves me paying for it. ) Notification of the court date and all the other legal bullshit required for me, the criminal!!
5. Then on the morning of the court date (Usually around 12 months) I'll ring the Clerk of Courts and say I wont be attending, make my apologies to the Beak etc. Give the usual reasons of loss of wages etc. This wastes a Camera operators time, a Police Prosecutor and of course the Court has a wasted spot in that days proceedings!
And usually I have only been stung an extra $10 or so on top of the original fine!

The extra Pesos is a cheap way of making sure the pricks have to earn the money they have extorted from me.  
And the last 4 infringements I have had have all been around 5-6kph over the limit detected speed! Poofdahs!  

Civil disobedience?? Nup, definitely not!! Just playing their own system!! Now if everybody did this everything would just grind to a halt!!



And Ita, you would remember Atwood?? the Vic Pol rider training area?? If I remeber correctly Phil (Who loved a beer!! ) and Karl were in attendance  .
I did a course up their when I was with Vic Roads and the senior Police instructor told us that the safest place for a motorcycle to be is in FRONT of the traffic, NOT in it!
And he did admit that as motorcyclists we have to "Play The Game" of russian roulette in regards to our real world "motorcyclist safety strategy" and the Camera enforcement policy.
[/quote]

Quote from: Ita on May 02, 2010, 05:16:35 AM
You guys (in Victoria anyway) may not have noticed, but cops have not maned (personed?) camera cars for a decade or more...

Labor governments have made a big and even bigger business out of this baby (cash cow tax grab) and there weren't enough coppers to go around so they use contractors on way less $$$ to person the cars and further increase proffits!!!

Ita

We noticed.  Doesnt matter if its a Sworn Member operating the camera device or not - the result is the same.  My gripe is not with the operation of the equipment but with the narrow emphasis on speed enforcement as the... solution.  Even VicPol's top Traffic Cop, Deputy Commissioner Ken found himself running foul of a (civilian operated) speed camera.  Here's a man with a long record of safe driving, free of any traffic violations, a man in the public eye who would presumably be very aware of the embarrassment of being caught speeding.... Who would no doubt take every precaution to ensure he wasnt snared..... and yet even with the best intentions, even with a driving record which indicates no propensity for speeding he still, as will we all sooner or later, gets ticketed.  This doesnt contribute to road safety in any way.  It merely makes good, safe drivers cynical.  But for government, its the perfect solution to the road "toll" problem - blame every fatality and serious injury on speed and rake in the cash for every inadvertent minor infringement.  Whereas, to put coppers in cars out on the road nabbing bad or inattentive or aggressive drivers - who may or may not be speeding would cost money.  But I include VicPol in my criticsism of the government's nice-little-earner-road-safety-fiction for the enthusiastic promotion of it by senior police at every opportunity.  

Quote from: ungeheuer on May 02, 2010, 01:45:19 PM
We noticed.  Doesnt matter if its a Sworn Member operating the camera device or not - the result is the same.  My gripe is not with the operation of the equipment but with the narrow emphasis on speed enforcement as the... solution.  Even VicPol's top Traffic Cop, Deputy Commissioner Ken found himself running foul of a (civilian operated) speed camera.  Here's a man with a long record of safe driving, free of any traffic violations, a man in the public eye who would presumably be very aware of the embarrassment of being caught speeding.... Who would no doubt take every precaution to ensure he wasnt snared..... and yet even with the best intentions, even with a driving record which indicates no propensity for speeding he still, as will we all sooner or later, gets ticketed.  This doesnt contribute to road safety in any way.  It merely makes good, safe drivers cynical.  But for government, its the perfect solution to the road "toll" problem - blame every fatality and serious injury on speed and rake in the cash for every inadvertent minor infringement.  Whereas, to put coppers in cars out on the road nabbing bad or inattentive or aggressive drivers - who may or may not be speeding would cost money.  But I include VicPol in my criticsism of the government's nice-little-earner-road-safety-fiction for the enthusiastic promotion of it by senior police at every opportunity.  

That's why I will watch with much interest the next few years, with the amount of regular drivers being caught up and pinged for silly piddly amounts over the limit.
It is well known that people (Like professional drivers) have lost there jobs due to excess points for tiny amounts over the limit. How is that saving lives?
how is that not a gross misuse of power?
I will watch this one closely, I think eventually this will get to a tipping point, eventually people will say enough is enough, We are tired of being ripped off and
treated like children in the Nanny state/Nation.
Particularly now that at least once or twice a year I expect I will have to come across the Water from Tasmania to Melbourne for various reasons.

I wonder if speeding fines will carry across the water to find me in Tasmania? 

Public Up-rising! ... you know you want one, you know we need one.

But as has been said most people couldn't be bothered ... it is far easier to just pay the fine (knowing they have done worse) and then complain about it at every opportunity.

Something in the order of that recent-ish protest in (I think it was) France would be a nice start.

Quote from: CairnsDuc on May 02, 2010, 12:35:46 PMI am dreading the 284 Klm's from the NSW Border to the Spirit of Tasmania Ferry. I will be watching my Speedo and GPS/Nav speed like a hawk.

I think you're worrying a little too much, just be.... observant and you'll be alright.