Quote from: rgramjet on June 22, 2010, 03:29:31 PM
Why the shorter range buckshot before the slugs?

Cyrus' middle name is 'tactical'

don't make the beast with two backs with him.

Wasnt make the beast with two backsing with him, just curious. 

I have hunted deer, in thick brush, in bear country.  I could see a justification for 00 first......a bit more forgiving with thin skinned animals that might charge you. 

Quote from: cyrus buelton on June 22, 2010, 12:44:13 PM

I have 00-00-slug-slug-00-slug-00-slug-slug-00


That's my Saiga 10rnd mag order

No biggie and I won't re-hash all my reasoning from another post. But I taught a tactical shotgun class at a firearms academy for 11 years. And have taken multiple tact scattergun courses from Clint Smith (Thunder Ranch), Louis Awerbuck (Yavapai Firearms Academy), John Farnham (Defense Training International) and many others. Doesn't make me Mr. Know It All but I have never been a fan of "stacked" shotgun tubes (or mags in your case) and neither has any of those instructors. I'm talking personal self defense here not hog popping.

Just curious, why do you choose to stack your ammo that way? I have had many "interesting" answers from students over the years. And no, I'm not trying to be a smart ass/turd here. Just sincerely asking why the ammo mix? Obviously do what ever the hell you want, it's a free country. For the time being. Just wondering is all. Please post up or PM if you want. Thanks!!

Home defense is all #2, all the time.  What do the home defense experts recommend?

My deer hunting preference is a Brenneke sabot slug.....when I cant use a rifle.

Damn this thread.

I guess I need a shotgun now...

So that makes the current wish list-
1- Springfield xd45
2- scattergun
3- build ar

you guys gotta knock it off. My wallet can't take this.

Quote from: rgramjet on June 22, 2010, 04:26:51 PM
Home defense is all #2, all the time.  What do the home defense experts recommend?

My deer hunting preference is a Brenneke sabot slug.....when I cant use a rifle.

Their slugs do kick ass! I love those. But I don't use the sabot, just straight up rifled 1 oz. Brenneke slugs.

Ah... use what the hell you want. I'm not going there. So many opinions from so many people. Take your pick. Shit, what 12 gauge shotgun round wouldn't absolutely make the beast with two backs you up in home defense shooting distances? I'm sure an ER surgeon would just cover your face up with a sheet and walk away even when #7 birdshot was used! Try birdshot on a cardboard target at 5, 7 and 10 yards. Check out the spread. Even at 10 it's the size of a coffee cup saucer with a modified choke! Ouch!!

My cheap ass two cents advice is Estate low recoil tact 00 buck (9 pellets). Yeah, it's not made anymore and that's why I have so many cases of it!! Out of my class III 14" Vang Comp barrels it's the best patterning 00 buck in the worldl!! Next is standard issue Federal low recoil tact 00 buck (9 pellet). I have many friends who like Federal's 8 pellet 0 tact buck. I think you should just find what patterns best out of your gun's barrel, practice like crazy and call it a day.

Hope you never have to fire a round in anger.

Quote from: Statler on June 22, 2010, 03:52:03 PM
Cyrus' middle name is 'tactical'

don't make the beast with two backs with him.

Quote from: fastwin on June 22, 2010, 04:09:39 PM
No biggie and I won't re-hash all my reasoning from another post. But I taught a tactical shotgun class at a firearms academy for 11 years. And have taken multiple tact scattergun courses from Clint Smith (Thunder Ranch), Louis Awerbuck (Yavapai Firearms Academy), John Farnham .....

John Farnham - You're The Voice Live - Arias 2003

Tough gun toting SOB that Johnny Farnham 

Wow! Farnham is much more talented than I ever knew... and better looking!!

Speaking of shotguns... we were, right?? I've noticed the SAS 12 getting some mileage in Hollyweird these days. It's in two trailers: one for Predators and in the one for The Expendables. At least someone is having some fun with it.

'The Expendables' Trailer HD

Predators Trailer

Quote from: Statler on June 22, 2010, 03:52:03 PM
Cyrus' middle name is 'tactical'

don't make the beast with two backs with him.

You are so funny.

Enjoy your 3,000$ overpriced .45




reasoning for staggering:

no idea.

figured the 00 buck will knock down the intruder and then finish em' off with a slug or 2.

That's a good enough answer. Like I said, anything coming out of the hot end of a 12 gauge is bad news.

Quote from: fastwin on June 23, 2010, 04:53:43 AM
Speaking of shotguns... we were, right?? I've noticed the SAS 12 getting some mileage in Hollyweird these days. It's in two trailers: one for Predators and in the one for The Expendables. At least someone is having some fun with it.

'The Expendables' Trailer HD

Predators Trailer

We were talking about these movies on another thread. Anyway, for home defense any 12 gauge will do, but I prefer the old school short shottie.

Quote from: fastwin on June 23, 2010, 06:04:28 AM
That's a good enough answer. Like I said, anything coming out of the hot end of a 12 gauge is bad news.

I read up on the "spray" of 00 buck and it is an effective pattern anywhere in my house, so that is why the first two rounds are 00.

Anywhere I would be located, the group of the pellets will hit the chest of an adult. I also tested this at the range on a target.

Quote from: fastwin on June 22, 2010, 04:09:39 PM
No biggie and I won't re-hash all my reasoning from another post. But I taught a tactical shotgun class at a firearms academy for 11 years. And have taken multiple tact scattergun courses from Clint Smith (Thunder Ranch), Louis Awerbuck (Yavapai Firearms Academy), John Farnham (Defense Training International) and many others. Doesn't make me Mr. Know It All but I have never been a fan of "stacked" shotgun tubes (or mags in your case) and neither has any of those instructors. I'm talking personal self defense here not hog popping.

Just curious, why do you choose to stack your ammo that way? I have had many "interesting" answers from students over the years. And no, I'm not trying to be a smart ass/turd here. Just sincerely asking why the ammo mix? Obviously do what ever the hell you want, it's a free country. For the time being. Just wondering is all. Please post up or PM if you want. Thanks!!

I posted above my reasoning, which I have no idea if it is worthwhile or not, just sort of made sense to me.


So why do you recommend not staggering? Consistency of each round being the same?

No, that's a really good answer. Knowing how your shotgun patterns is very important. It was an important part of my class. We'd use fresh IPSC cardboard targets, take your favorite flavor of buckshot, then fire a round (center body mass) at 5 yards, make safe, sling your weapon, go downrange and mark the "outer" ring of pellet holes with a Marks-A-Lot. Connect a dot so to speak. Then repeat that drill at 7, 10, 15, 20 and 25 yards. You would mark the ring with the given distance you fired from. Obviously the drawn/connect a dot ring gets larger as you increase distance.

We'd loose the ability to keep all the pellets on target at around the 15-20 yard range. That's an average. Lots of factors involved. Obvious is shot placement but barrel length, type of choke and type/brand of shotshell are all involved. Typical Rem 870 pump with 18" barrel and modified choke would hang in there until about 20 yards using name brand 2.75" 00 buck. Once you loose the ability to keep all the pellets on target that's about the distance limit for your gun and buckshot. I stressed the accountablity of knowing where all those pellets are going. If half hit your target where are the other half going??? You are responsible for all those pellets when they are going downrange.

Most of my scatterguns have been modified and ported by Hans Vang (Vang Comp) and like I said I LOVE the now defunct Estate brand tactical 00 buckshot. Even out of my class III 14" Vang Comp barrels it would hold a smaller than dinner plate pattern way past 25 yards. Easy. Good stuff, tight patterns.

It's funny sometimes we'd have shooters come to the class absolutely swearing by brand x buckshot only to find out during the pattern drills that their weapon actually liked brand z better. We'd even have two shooters side by side with the exact same shotguns and one gun would pattern well on brand x and the other gun would like brand z. It's worth the effort to try several brands and types to see what works best for you and your weapon. Then practice and learn that pattern at different distances that you might have to shoot from in your home.

That sort of answers why I am not a fan of "stacked/mixed" magazine tubes. I keep slugs on a side saddle shell holder mounted to the receiver if I ever need them. I keep a fanny pack with my spare buckshot, a carry pistol and a back up flashlight next to my home defense shotgun. That's my long winded two cents. But again, good for you for patterning your gun!