^^ I wonder if all 3 of the troops they have in OEF are carrying them?

Quote from: fastwin on August 08, 2010, 05:20:02 PM
Sweet. Just supports my feelings and backs up the gun mag article. Good tough guns... everyone should have one!

I am looking into a box mag semi-auto .308


I was leaning towards a Springfield M1, but is the FAL a better gun?

No. Just different. I luckily have both and both are great. Never had any chronic problems with either. That DSA torture test article is pretty damn impressive! Never read about a semi auto M1A going through anything like that. I'm sure there are some great stories out there about battle tested M14s but I personally don't know of any.

I'd probably just see what the going price is on which ever version of both you are interested in. I'm thinking you can't go wrong. I really don't know which ones I'd get rid of if I had to keep one. I suppose that's a good endorsement of both. By the way, I assume you meant M1A not M1 Garand?

Thanks for the advice 

Yeah, I meant the M1A, no the M1 chambered in 30-06.


However.......my brother and I are about to each get one. I can't think of the organization, but they sell refurbished WWII ones. You just have to pay the 20$ fee to join the club, have some sort of "safety" form signed by a licensed or whatever they are trainer (I pass because I have my CCW and my brother will pass because he will be a Federal Law Enforcement Special Agent, so he just has to show his badge)

Prices range from 400-1300 based on condition.

Are you talking about CMP? Civilian Marksmenship Program? It's a gov't funded organization that rotates older military rifles (like M1 Garands) that have been reburbished into civilian hands to be used in Camp Perry type competitions. I didn't know that they offered semi auto M14s. I thought it was just .30-06 caliber NM Garands. Not sure of the price on the Garands but they always have ads in the NRA American Rifleman magazine.

Quote from: fastwin on August 09, 2010, 06:24:35 PM
Are you talking about CMP? Civilian Marksmenship Program? It's a gov't funded organization that rotates older military rifles (like M1 Garands) that have been reburbished into civilian hands to be used in Camp Perry type competitions. I didn't know that they offered semi auto M14s. I thought it was just .30-06 caliber NM Garands. Not sure of the price on the Garands but they always have ads in the NRA American Rifleman magazine.

They are here in town. I can stop in and find out.

Quote from: fastwin on August 09, 2010, 06:24:35 PM
Are you talking about CMP? Civilian Marksmenship Program? It's a gov't funded organization that rotates older military rifles (like M1 Garands) that have been reburbished into civilian hands to be used in Camp Perry type competitions. I didn't know that they offered semi auto M14s. I thought it was just .30-06 caliber NM Garands. Not sure of the price on the Garands but they always have ads in the NRA American Rifleman magazine.

That's it! That is the correct organization.


No, they only sell the M1 Garand chambered in 30-06, but maybe did they change it? Looks like Kopjager is going to do the legwork on that for us 

I believe the M14's are select fire verse a springfield M1A..........kopjager corrected me on that, didn't you?

That gun would be a mothermake the beast with two backser to shoot full auto unless you had a bipod.

Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 09, 2010, 07:30:36 PM
I believe the M14's are select fire verse a springfield M1A..........kopjager corrected me on that, didn't you?

It wasn't me, but that's correct.

Quote from: kopfjäger on August 09, 2010, 08:07:15 PM
It wasn't me, but that's correct.

I thought we did via PM?

who knows.

I could back through the thread and look where I was corrected, but don't care all that much.

the M14 is a tad heavier, but that doesn't affect use at all.

in their original setups, the FAL has a vertical pistol grip and the M14 has a traditional style rifle grip.  There are aftermarket and issue stocks for the M14 that have a PG like the FAL.  YMMV.

The M14 design is much older (some would argue the FAL's is just as old, based on the FN49) but I think it could be argued the weaknesses in the M14's design (external op rod, bolt impacts receiver) mean it is an entirely older design.  The FAL's recoil spring is behind the bolt whereas the M14's is on the Op rod and indirectly acts on the bolt.  This prevents the FAL bolt from impacting with full force.  Moreover, one can put a recoil buffer in the FAL which protects the bolt and receiver (some would argue its unecessary on the FAL)  such a buffer is not possible on the M14 except on the op rod (which can break, so not a bad idea imho) but how effective they are is unknown to me.

I like the M14 a lot, but shooting the FAL is a pleasure as well.

Quote from: ducatiz on August 10, 2010, 04:24:53 AM
the M14 is a tad heavier, but that doesn't affect use at all.

in their original setups, the FAL has a vertical pistol grip and the M14 has a traditional style rifle grip.  There are aftermarket and issue stocks for the M14 that have a PG like the FAL.  YMMV.

The M14 design is much older (some would argue the FAL's is just as old, based on the FN49) but I think it could be argued the weaknesses in the M14's design (external op rod, bolt impacts receiver) mean it is an entirely older design.  The FAL's recoil spring is behind the bolt whereas the M14's is on the Op rod and indirectly acts on the bolt.  This prevents the FAL bolt from impacting with full force.  Moreover, one can put a recoil buffer in the FAL which protects the bolt and receiver (some would argue its unecessary on the FAL)  such a buffer is not possible on the M14 except on the op rod (which can break, so not a bad idea imho) but how effective they are is unknown to me.

I like the M14 a lot, but shooting the FAL is a pleasure as well.

Yep, like I said both great guns. Can't go wrong with either one. They are just different animals that happen to do the same thing.

I always assumed/thought that the M14 just sort of morphed from the M1 Garand design and became the "new" BAR for the US military. Their design and function are so similar.

I'm also lucky enough to own one of the folding para trooper style stocks for the M1As that features a pistol grip style stock. I have it on a 18" barreled M1A and no, it's not much fun to shoot so it's kinda a gun safe queen. I'd love to read a torture test comparo between the M1A and FAL. That would be interesting. I'm still impressed with the DSA gun report!

Quote from: DRKWNG on June 21, 2010, 05:52:40 PM
Nosir.  It is in fact a scout model, which can be id'd by the shorter barrel and unique muzzle brake/compensator.  You can also tell from the rail mount on the upper fore-end. 

Also, M14s are only mil-spec and are select fire capable, so in fact different from an M1A.

cyrus/Judd,

Maybe this is the post you were thinking of?

Quote from: fastwin on August 10, 2010, 06:05:51 AM
Yep, like I said both great guns. Can't go wrong with either one. They are just different animals that happen to do the same thing.

I always assumed/thought that the M14 just sort of morphed from the M1 Garand design and became the "new" BAR for the US military. Their design and function are so similar.

yup.  the M14 is really just an updated, scaled down version of the M1.  The Italians liked the M1's beefy receiver though and made the BM59 which is a friggin' awesome gun.  Box mag 7.62. 

QuoteI'm also lucky enough to own one of the folding para trooper style stocks for the M1As that features a pistol grip style stock. I have it on a 18" barreled M1A and no, it's not much fun to shoot so it's kinda a gun safe queen. I'd love to read a torture test comparo between the M1A and FAL. That would be interesting. I'm still impressed with the DSA gun report!

i have the folding stock, they were one of Choate's early contracts.  I took it off, it was annoying, mine is a late Springfield Armory "bush" model with a short barrel.

Quote from: vincheung on August 11, 2010, 07:50:53 AM
sorry to break from the M1 and M14 convo.  Some Kahr K9 pics from the NY Times back in 08,

nypd approved the K9 for duty backup and concealed purposes

what story is that from?

Quote from: fastwin on August 11, 2010, 07:02:41 AM
cyrus/Judd,

Maybe this is the post you were thinking of?

That's it.

I knew it was someone that is serving in our Military that corrected me