Quote from: derby on June 24, 2008, 05:56:06 AM
yeah, i can't believe i got sucked into this damn thing again.

We'll have to see what tune the fat lady sings this season.

Quote from: sqweak on June 23, 2008, 11:13:55 PM
Let's review your statements from last year, leading up to your magic bullet of the tire struggles.

Stoner only wins because Ducati gambled on performance over fuel economy.

  did they get some special you can carry extra fuel in your speed hump exemption?

Out of curiosity, when stoner said, "they made an electronics breakthrough"  does that necessarily mean they increased the input of the traction control?  Couldn't it also mean that they reduced the input TC has on his bike? 

Everyone just seems to assume this electronic breakthrough was TC and increased TC input/ reduced rider input.

Maybe the electronic breakthrough was better EFI allowing the bike to run more efficiently?

I think Stoner has to prove last year wasn't just a 1 time thing, just like any other rider who has been GP champ once.

Quote from: Pakhan on June 24, 2008, 07:55:04 AM
Everyone just seems to assume this electronic breakthrough was TC and increased TC input/ reduced rider input.

what makes you say that?

Quote from: Pakhan on June 24, 2008, 07:55:04 AM
Out of curiosity, when stoner said, "they made an electronics breakthrough"  does that necessarily mean they increased the input of the traction control?  Couldn't it also mean that they reduced the input TC has on his bike? 

Everyone just seems to assume this electronic breakthrough was TC and increased TC input/ reduced rider input.

Maybe the electronic breakthrough was better EFI allowing the bike to run more efficiently?

well, nobody except the team really knows what it means. however, ducati's issues this season haven't been lack of power or running out of fuel...

i just thought it was funny that they "found something" that wasn't better geometry, or suspension/setting, or a tire that worked better... they apparently just got better software. 

like i said last year, the kid needs to learn when to keep his mouth shut. he gives his detractors too much fuel for the fire.

Quote from: Pakhan on June 24, 2008, 07:55:04 AM

I think Stoner has to prove last year wasn't just a 1 time thing, just like any other rider who has been GP champ once.

watch out... sqweak is gonna accuse you of blasphemy.

Quote from: gm2 on June 24, 2008, 08:06:16 AM
what makes you say that?

Just seems to be the tone when people mention it here and when I was at the bar watching the races. Maybe I'm misreading people but it's the impression I have been getting.

Quote from: derby on June 24, 2008, 08:08:23 AM
watch out... sqweak is gonna accuse you of blasphemy.

I is blasphemous! But you know I'm right.

Obviously, Stoner's performance is solely attributable to the bike, because all of the other Ducati riders swept all of the positions right behind him.

Quote from: Speeddog on June 24, 2008, 08:34:48 AM
Obviously, Stoner's performance is solely attributable to the bike, because all of the other Ducati riders swept all of the positions right behind him.

Yep, just like in 2006 when it was all Honda on the Box.  Oh, it wasn't?  But, I thought the RC211V was the greatest bike that GP had ever seen?

Just because it's the best bike, doesn't mean everyone who has one is going to ride it to its full potential every race.  You'll also notice that the other Ducati riders (Loris and Sete during testing) went a lot better on the GP7 than anyone has gone on the GP8.  Most likely because Ducati over the course of last year (and still to this day) tailored it to work for Casey (not a bad idea).  Only problem is that other people rely on feel to ride a bike, Casey has absolute confidence in that software and others lack that, which makes the bike perform to less than its ability.

Here's how Wayne Rainey puts it:  "I think they should take away traction control. Racing has lost some of the excitement, even with the higher corner speeds. Without [traction control] the rider has more input and can anticipate what he needs to do [to win.] We need to see bikes on track that astound the spectators with their speed, attracting the best riders. These days we rarely see wheelies, a highside or a rider mistake [because of traction control,] but when I was racing we paid for our mistakes the hard way, running off the track or going flying.

"Check out (Casey) Stoner's throttle openings on television. He couldn't ride like that without traction control. That said, the best riders are going to win, no matter what you do to the rules, and these days it's (Valentino) Rossi, Stoner and (Dani) Pedrosa."

Nobody debates Stoner's skill and ability to ride.  He IS a great rider and as I said earlier in this thread (and this life) he WILL win races.  However, last year he won 11 races going away after never winning a GP in his life - do you really believe that he suddenly woke up one morning and was Mick Doohan?

All the world wants to see is what happens when he has some competition.  Quite honestly, I've been somewhat impressed by his riding this year.  He's actually done quite well so far and is in good position with half the season left.  I gave him credit for last year, I'm just of the opinion that some people gave him too much credit.  If he wins it this year, he will have earned my respect as a racer, but I will never root for him.

My problem with Stoner comes from a couple places -

#1.  He's an arrogant prick who loves to blame others.
#2.  His style if riding represents everything I hate about the way GP is going.
#3.  His wife ISN'T that hot people and anyone who's a GP'er and gets married before their 21st birthday needs to be shot in the head

Quote#3.  His wife ISN'T that hot people and anyone who's a GP'er and gets married before their 21st birthday needs to be shot in the head

Who cares about Stoner, Rossi, or Pedrosa.  You all KNOW who is the god of motogp...............

The Japanese haven’t figured out traction control yet?  I personally think that Honda and Yamaha have the most technologically advanced traction control/engine management systems on their GP bikes.  With their pneumatic valves and everything else, I think its fantastic that Ducati can even compete.  I think you can hear the Ducati Traction control more because the other bikes have more advanced electronics.  Next race should be interesting.

Quote from: Pakhan on June 24, 2008, 09:22:55 AM
Who cares about Stoner, Rossi, or Pedrosa.  You all KNOW who is the god of motogp...............

There was a great quote on the WERA board re: De Puniet.  

"That boy should just run across the line at the start and dive into the sand. Save time and money."

Quote from: Armor on June 24, 2008, 10:03:05 AM
The Japanese haven’t figured out traction control yet?  I personally think that Honda and Yamaha have the most technologically advanced traction control/engine management systems on their GP bikes.  With their pneumatic valves and everything else, I think its fantastic that Ducati can even compete.  I think you can hear the Ducati Traction control more because the other bikes have more advanced electronics.  Next race should be interesting.

I don't think anyone's said that.  Anyhow, Ducati and Yamaha BOTH use Magneti Marelli electronics.  However, Ducati works with the Ferarri F1 engineers (who also use MM) to further advance their cause.  So, yes Ducati's electronics are prolly more "advanced," but really the point here is that Stoner is the only one who can exploit that advantage because of his ability to shut off his brain and rely on the electronics at their highest setting (which is no small feat, I think it's insane that he's able to do that).

Quote from: Armor on June 24, 2008, 10:03:05 AM
The Japanese haven’t figured out traction control yet?  I personally think that Honda and Yamaha have the most technologically advanced traction control/engine management systems on their GP bikes.  With their pneumatic valves and everything else, I think its fantastic that Ducati can even compete.  I think you can hear the Ducati Traction control more because the other bikes have more advanced electronics.  Next race should be interesting.

Quote from: darylbowden on June 24, 2008, 10:07:34 AM
I don't think anyone's said that.  Anyhow, Ducati and Yamaha BOTH use Magneti Marelli electronics.  However, Ducati works with the Ferarri F1 engineers (who also use MM) to further advance their cause.  So, yes Ducati's electronics are prolly more "advanced," but really the point here is that Stoner is the only one who can exploit that advantage because of his ability to shut off his brain and rely on the electronics at their highest setting (which is no small feat, I think it's insane that he's able to do that).

plus, have you see honda's f1 team?  

the ducati/ferrari/magneti marelli relationship is interesting in the light that fiat owns both ferrari and magneti marelli. fiat is also the title sponsor of the yamaha factory motogp squad, yet ducati gets the ferrari f1 collaboration on their engine management system.

Quote from: darylbowden on June 24, 2008, 10:04:42 AM


There was a great quote on the WERA board re: De Puniet. 

"That boy should just run across the line at the start and dive into the sand. Save time and money."