Excellent read. 

http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/08/08/the_trouble_with_the_ducati_desmosedici_.html

QuoteAbandoning the L would be the biggest step Ducati could make towards becoming competitive again. It would open up avenues which the current layout make it impossible to explore. The weight distribution would be much more flexible, giving Rossi, Burgess and co. more options to explore. A more compact V or even an inline 4 layout could turn around Ducati's prospects.

Rossi vs. Ducati

Of course, this means abandoning forty years of history, and a layout which has become part of the Ducati legend. If it were to fail, Ducati would have lost both its reputation as a manufacturer of fast motorcycles, and sacrificed a key part of its iconic brand identity. If it succeeds, the question is whether the Ducatisti will feel that sacrificing their heritage is worth the return in competitiveness.

Surprised the article didn't mention this, but Ducati already have abandoned the L configuration...in the forthcoming 1199 Streetbike. Its engine is more-than-rumored to be less than 90 degrees, for flexibility in mass centralization. So they seem to have already killed that sacred cow, but are sticking with the L in MotoGP?

Great article...thanks for the link. 

Quote from: desmoquattro on August 08, 2011, 02:53:44 PM
Surprised the article didn't mention this, but Ducati already have abandoned the L configuration...in the forthcoming 1199 Streetbike. Its engine is more-than-rumored to be less than 90 degrees, for flexibility in mass centralization. So they seem to have already killed that sacred cow, but are sticking with the L in MotoGP?

From my understanding, the new SBK still uses a 90* twin, but the entire engine is rotated rearwards so the horizontal cylinder is no longer as horizontal as before. Basically, it's now a "V-twin" as opposed to an "L-twin"...even though the L-twin description is really just a marketing tool.

Quote from: Triple J on August 08, 2011, 03:22:06 PM
Great article...thanks for the link. 

From my understanding, the new SBK still uses a 90* twin, but the entire engine is rotated rearwards so the horizontal cylinder is no longer as horizontal as before. Basically, it's now a "V-twin" as opposed to an "L-twin"...even though the L-twin description is really just a marketing tool.

Could be. Then again, the current L twins are tipped backwards a bit too.

Quote from: desmoquattro on August 08, 2011, 02:53:44 PM
Surprised the article didn't mention this, but Ducati already have abandoned the L configuration...in the forthcoming 1199 Streetbike. Its engine is more-than-rumored to be less than 90 degrees, for flexibility in mass centralization. So they seem to have already killed that sacred cow, but are sticking with the L in MotoGP?

Got a reputable link on that?

Quote from: Speeddog on August 08, 2011, 03:36:31 PM
Got a reputable link on that?

Reputable? Everything coming out has been in either the Italian press or MCN...not exactly what you'd call reputable. Supplement that with the scuttlebut at the local Ducati dealer, and take it for what it's worth. But the things I keep hearing are gear-driven cams (yummy!), monocoque frame (carbon, carbon composite, or aluminum), and non-L configuration, whatever that means.

Quote from: Speeddog on August 08, 2011, 03:36:31 PM
Got a reputable link on that?

This is the best english one I've seen...surely posted on this board somewhere. I saw an italian version a long time ago that seemed to say the same thing according to the google translator. 

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/newsandupdates/motorcycle_news/122_1009_2011_ducati_superquadrata/index.html

Still 90, just rotated to not be an "L".

Quote from: Triple J on August 08, 2011, 03:52:57 PM
This is the best english one I've seen...surely posted on this board somewhere. I saw an italian version a long time ago that seemed to say the same thing according to the google translator. 

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/newsandupdates/motorcycle_news/122_1009_2011_ducati_superquadrata/index.html

Still 90, just rotated to not be an "L".

It may well be!

That said, I think the GP12 is clearly going to be an L. One would hope Ducati have the courage and the resources to reconsider that decision.

f*cking fabulous article, as usual.

this makes me wonder how much harder it will be to tune the 1199.  i remember one of the announcers saying that one of the reasons that checa is doing so well in WSBK is because of how easy it is to get that bike to work with the riding style of the rider.

Great article, with lots to chew on.

Great article. I learned a lot about the compromises involved in designing a competitive GP machine.
I disagree on one major point. Ducati's "iconic brand identity" is based more on winning, and in David vs Goliath fashion, than it is on any one tech or design feature. Ducati owners may piss and moan about change, but any lost buyers will easily be made up in new, enthusiastic fans. Ducati doesn't have to follow the HD model of releasing antiquated, uncompetitive machines just to hew to tradition. I think the commercial success of the new monsters and the diavel prove that, an i suspect that the 1199 will do so as well.

Quote from: thought on August 08, 2011, 07:20:52 PM
this makes me wonder how much harder it will be to tune the 1199.  i remember one of the announcers saying that one of the reasons that checa is doing so well in WSBK is because of how easy it is to get that bike to work with the riding style of the rider.

tires tires tires

Quote from: swampduc on August 09, 2011, 12:12:37 PM
Great article. I learned a lot about the compromises involved in designing a competitive GP machine.
I disagree on one major point. Ducati's "iconic brand identity" is based more on winning, and in David vs Goliath fashion, than it is on any one tech or design feature.

i agree.  the twin part of L-twin is much more important to ducati fanatics.  they all know the GP bike is not a twin, therefore i really doubt if they care what configuration 4 it is. 

Depicted graphically: