Well, I low-sided this morning, but luckily minimal damage to the bike and myself. However, upon retrospect I have come to a question... but first, the quick story.

I got to a T-intersection where I must either turn left or right. I'm the first one on the line at the red. It turns green and I begin the smooth throttle roll into the intersection and starting my left turn. As I'm looking past my turn, I notice that from the left a lone Ford Bronco is just hurtling way too fast to stop (on the street perpendicular to mine). I suddenly realize that there's no way that Bronco is going to stop in time so I grab a fistful of front brake. My front wheel locks up and I go down. As I'm going down, I see the Bronco screech to a halt PAST where I would have been if I had not stopped so suddenly. I end up about 10 feet from her path. So the Bronco is to the right of me and all I can see is the passenger, who is this 16-18 yo kid just looking at me. THEN, THE BRONCO KEEPS DRIVING. 

The Bronco was going from left to right on a four lane street. She was in her centermost lane. If she were in the other lane, I would have been a goner.

My question is this. If she broke the law and caused my low side indirectly, would she be responsible for the damages on my bike or my person? She didn't hit me, but she was clearly running the red, and I had to stop to avoid hitting. However, I will admit, I did not have full control since I really grabbed the brake too hard. I think I could have stopped in time if I hadn't panicked.

This is hypothetical. As I said, there was no real damage. Just the bar end and the mirror and the left pegs are a little scratched up. Thank you God for Pazzo shortie clutch levers.... Or, thank you Pazzo for making them.

What do you guys think? If my bike were totaled, would I have to shell out the cash?

unless they made contact (hit you) more times that not..... it's your fault.

Yeah...Unfortunately the insurance companies rely on fault charts to settle "smaller" claims.  The fault charts were designed for 4-wheel accidents.  Not too many cars fall over trying to avoid an accident but the fault charts ignore this law of physics.

The insurance company just looks at it as another motorcyclist who lost control of his vehicle.

Not fair....but not much in this life is!  Glad you avoided something bad. 

That's pretty much what happened to me.  I was carving up some nice twisties, and came to an inverted U that had a real tight left right left turn.  As I was coming out of the U I saw ahead that a minivan was half way across the double yellow oncoming.  I had to stand the bike up and take it off the road to avoid hitting the minivan.  My tire blew, and the rim bent and caught on the brake calipers, high-siding me and totaling the bike.  CHP faulted me because there was no contact, but if I had to make the choice again, I'd take flying through the air over a head on collision with a minivan.  It really is retarded justification, but that's life.  The only upside was that I wasn't ticketed.

First: glad to hear you're alright
Second: glad to see that you saw the danger before it was too late
Third: It sounds like you, frankly, should have seen it coming. I don't mean to be a jerk by saying that.

Quote from: jclin on June 26, 2008, 03:37:29 PM
Well, I low-sided this morning, but luckily minimal damage to the bike and myself. However, upon retrospect I have come to a question... but first, the quick story.

I got to a T-intersection where I must either turn left or right. I'm the first one on the line at the red. It turns green and I begin the smooth throttle roll into the intersection and starting my left turn. As I'm looking past my turn, I notice that from the left a lone Ford Bronco is just hurtling way too fast to stop (on the street perpendicular to mine). I suddenly realize that there's no way that Bronco is going to stop in time so I grab a fistful of front brake. My front wheel locks up and I go down. As I'm going down, I see the Bronco screech to a halt PAST where I would have been if I had not stopped so suddenly. I end up about 10 feet from her path. So the Bronco is to the right of me and all I can see is the passenger, who is this 16-18 yo kid just looking at me. THEN, THE BRONCO KEEPS DRIVING. 

The Bronco was going from left to right on a four lane street. She was in her centermost lane. If she were in the other lane, I would have been a goner.

My question is this. If she broke the law and caused my low side indirectly, would she be responsible for the damages on my bike or my person? She didn't hit me, but she was clearly running the red, and I had to stop to avoid hitting. However, I will admit, I did not have full control since I really grabbed the brake too hard. I think I could have stopped in time if I hadn't panicked.

This is hypothetical. As I said, there was no real damage. Just the bar end and the mirror and the left pegs are a little scratched up. Thank you God for Pazzo shortie clutch levers.... Or, thank you Pazzo for making them.

What do you guys think? If my bike were totaled, would I have to shell out the cash?

Yes they were at fault, but at this point, it's your word against theirs. If you had minimal damage, why didn't you go after the bronco?

I should have went after the Bronco, but I didn't know at the time that my motorcycle was okay. A fellow rider in a cage saw it happen and helped me off the road so I didn't stop traffic. We looked over me and then the bike and by that time, it had been about 5 minutes and the Bronco was long gone.

I don't think I could have seen it coming beyond what I was doing. My fault was the panicking, not the "paying attention". By the way, when you alter your comment by saying "I don't mean to be a jerk"... that generally means you are being a jerk. But no worries, I take absolutely no offense.    For the next person, perhaps a post-apology would be good though. 

Thanks for the replies. My thoughts were that motorcyclists are pretty much screwed unless they make contact, but then if that's the case we're screwed on a whole other level.

So frustrating. 

Hey Adamm, sorry about your crash. Glad nothing truly bad (i.e. permanent damage) happened.

I just had  a non-contact accident with a cager.   

They did not hit me but crossed a double yellow line and entered my lane (similar to your red light running).  They did stop and were convinced to stay at the scene.  When the cops arrived, I had wittinesses who saw the whole thing.  I never made any contact with the other car.  The cop (who was a rider) issued them a ticket and their insurance GEICO paid handsomely.  Which was the right thing to do.

I think if you had witnesses and a police report...they caused the damages and you have a creditable law suit and would be able to recover your costs...but perhaps not as easily as I did.  I got lucky and I know it.

They are at fault. The illegal action that they did caused you to change your course or intended direction. If I was there they would get a cite and the accident report would show them at fault. They don't have to touch you to cause an accident.

First, good to hear you are OK and the bike little damage.  Hypothetical is much better than real.

Fault has a lot to do with your state laws.  For most of my youth if you hit someone in the rear or rear quarter it was your fault based on the idea you had the last opportunity to avoid the accident, regardless of how many laws the dumbass broke.  No contact, no witnesses would be difficult anywhere.  For sure a ticket issued by a LEO who witnessed the accident and filled out a report would weigh heavily in your favor.

+1 on they are at fault, but you would be screwed without A) the license/id of the vehicle at fault AND B) strong support of witnesses to swing the 'your word against theirs' position in a no-contact accident.

My wife was driving on the freeway and was cut-off by a driver, she spun off and went into the gaurdrail and nearly totalled the car.  While we had several witnesses that saw the accident and were on my wife's side with the at-fault being placed elsewhere, the other driver never even slowed down and was not identifiable by any of the witnesses that stopped.

I would tend to agree that this was another situation where my wife over-cooked the avoidance, but we aren't all expected to be rally drivers and if the other vehicle has plainly done something illegal, then they should be held accountable...  you just need a few things to go right for you for this to happen - cage too.

That said 
I've heard it on good account that practicing your emergency stops is a prudent thing to do every so often.

Quote from: CromoMann on June 28, 2008, 12:31:23 AM
I've heard it on good account that practicing your emergency stops is a prudent thing to do every so often.

Time to hit the parking lots Good advice, thanks!

Do you think yould you have been able to get out of her way if you would have gassed it through the corner instead of trying to stop?

Howdy jclin-

1st, glad you're OK. Sounds like it could have been really bad...
Now then, stop second-guessing yourself. The accident was clearly the fault of the Bronco, who ran a red light.
You had absolutely no fault. You had the right of way, & would not have been forced to make an emergency stop if the Bronco had not broken the law.

Lesson to everyone- Grab every witness nearby- get names & numbers. Make them wait with you until Leo arrives.

Your insurance should treat this as a hit-and-run, & hopefully you have uninsured/underinsured coverage.You may have a lower deductible than with collision, & this should not affect your rates or count against you.

Keep us posted

Again, seriously, sorry if my statement about you seeing it coming sounded jerkish. Maybe it would have been better put by focusing on what you could have done better in the panic situation.

Also again, glad you are okay.