Quote from: koko64 on November 29, 2011, 12:00:08 PM

I also think Rossi is the GOAT, but if you look at the stats, Stoner has been better in the 800 era..

i dunno... it's pretty close in terms of stats.  stoner would average out to being 2.5 since 07 and rossi would average out to 3 with the dismal '11 season factored in.

but yeah... stoner is good, really fast... but not a goat.  just doesnt have the flash for it i think... doesnt make the crowd love him like rossi does.

i read a quote by hayden when he was commenting on when rossi joined the team.  even he said that he was surprised at how detailed and technical rossi was when giving feedback to the techs.

i'm really really hoping they can get that bike to work over the winter.  i think if they get some strong results over the next year, rossi might stay at duc for one more... if not,  i could def see him jumping ship.

If Ducati is the deciding factor, then I have to say Stoner. He was able to ride the beast quite well. Besides, his wife is

Quote from: thought on November 29, 2011, 12:14:27 PM
i dunno... it's pretty close in terms of stats.  stoner would average out to being 2.5 since 07 and rossi would average out to 3 with the dismal '11 season factored in.

I see 11 years, 2 championships for Stoner: 1 championship every 5.5 years
I see 16 years, 9 championships for Rossi: 1 championship every 1.78 years

It seems to me, not really that close.

Quote from: HotIce on November 29, 2011, 03:18:46 PM
I see 11 years, 2 championships for Stoner: 1 championship every 5.5 years
I see 16 years, 9 championships for Rossi: 1 championship every 1.78 years

It seems to me, not really that close.

those numbers are from the 800 era, from what koko64 said as seen in the quote.

Quote from: koko64 on November 29, 2011, 12:00:08 PM
I think Stoner is capable of eclipsing Rossi's record in the premier class, but he will retire too soon to do it. He has made ominous comments about life after racing.

Well, if you retire soon enough you can always make claims concerning how you "would have done" if you'd stayed.

Im a big fan of VR but hands down the best rider in the 800 era is Stoner. He was competitive( had several wins on it compared to VR's 0 ) riding the Duc that VR inherited and dominated when he got to the smoother Honda.  something tells me itll be the same scenario next season.
I do hope they get that Duc sorted out so VR & Hayden can compete. And ill gladly eat crow if they do start winning. 

Quote from: iRam on November 29, 2011, 05:31:24 PM
Im a big fan of VR but hands down the best rider in the 800 era is Stoner. He was competitive( had several wins on it compared to VR's 0 ) riding the Duc that VR inherited and dominated when he got to the smoother Honda.  something tells me itll be the same scenario next season.
I do hope they get that Duc sorted out so VR & Hayden can compete. And ill gladly eat crow if they do start winning. 

if you're just going to look at the numbers, you can't argue with the 800cc era stats as a whole... vale and stoner have two championships each, stoner has more wins.

that said, there are a lot of variables in play. rossi's gp11 was not casey's gp7-gp10 and you can't really directly compare what each of them did on the platform. not to mention michelin completely shitting the bed in 2007.

next year will be interesting... "big" motors and the ability to actually do testing....

if burgess+rossi can't get ducati sorted and back to a podium-capable chassis, nobody can.

Hate to put this way.....the past does not count during competition next year and I'm looking forward to it

Quote from: HotIce on November 29, 2011, 03:18:46 PM
I see 11 years, 2 championships for Stoner: 1 championship every 5.5 years
I see 16 years, 9 championships for Rossi: 1 championship every 1.78 years

It seems to me, not really that close.

If you look a little closer Stoner did'nt start racing GP until 2002, that's 9years, 1 every 4.5years

Quote from: The Don on November 29, 2011, 08:16:11 PM
If you look a little closer Stoner did'nt start racing GP until 2002, that's 9years, 1 every 4.5years

which still isn't better than Rossi...

Quote from: Zaster on November 29, 2011, 06:13:42 PM
Hate to put this way.....the past does not count during competition next year and I'm looking forward to it

I agree....2012 is a whole new ball game...and my hope is that JB & VR start turning wheels in anger after the 1st of the year with a vengeance like they did in the switch from Honda to Yamaha...those 2 did a lot to turn that machine around in the offseason...and my hope is for a similar result here...and unless Ducati is really going to be stubborn about things and hold them and themselves up for being a tainted disaster...they would do well to lend every bit of resource they can to this effort...which in machining aluminum as apposed to curing CF, they should be able to churn out parts rather quickly as needed in this process

Quote from: The Don on November 29, 2011, 08:16:11 PM
If you look a little closer Stoner did'nt start racing GP until 2002, that's 9years, 1 every 4.5years

When the OP title says "better", and not "better, from 780cc to 801cc, ...", one assumes "just better".
The stats I posted shows that Rossi won pretty much in every category, from tricycle to GP, with a few different brands, which is something that not many did.
And from 2 championships, to 9, it is a long way to go.

IMO the greatest feat in racing is winning on different platforms.  That could be vehicle type, engine size, manufacturer, race class, etc. 

Rossi wins that hands down IMO.


mitt

There will always be the next GOAT. Rossi will eventually retire and Stoner might be the next guy. He might then retire and someone wlse will be compared to them. The greatest rider would need to be the guy that did the most with the least amount. So in that mindset even the 990s were more technically advanced bikes than the bikes ridden a generation before and so on. Truly the best racers ever were those that basically rode on top of a rocket with wheels. All MotoGP riders today in comparison are a bunch of pussies.

i dunno... some goats are just permanent goats.

mohammad ali, michael jordan...  i can see someone beating rossi on stats, but i really cant see someone else providing the same excitement that he brings to the table.

plus, he has the coolest helmet designs   haha

Quote from: duccarlos on November 30, 2011, 11:54:51 AM
There will always be the next GOAT. Rossi will eventually retire and Stoner might be the next guy. He might then retire and someone wlse will be compared to them. The greatest rider would need to be the guy that did the most with the least amount. So in that mindset even the 990s were more technically advanced bikes than the bikes ridden a generation before and so on. Truly the best racers ever were those that basically rode on top of a rocket with wheels. All MotoGP riders today in comparison are a bunch of pussies.

rossi has won at least one championship on all the classes he's participated in; 125gp, 250gp, 500gp, motogp 990s, and motogp 800s. nobody else will ever do that. casey has only won on motogp 800s. sure, casey never ran 500s, but he had opportunities in 125 and 250.

valentino also holds more class and career records than casey.