Timing belt renew- 06 s2r1k- is this a dealer only job?

[Ivan]

Guys, thanks for sharing all this info. This has been most helpful.

[bazz20]

Setting the belts with the Ducati tools to the specified spec then loosening to operating spec once tools are removed produce a very reliable result. Bruce verified it with a degree wheel on the 1000DS motor.

The Ducati spec allows +/- 5Hz so there is no perfect number. Like anything on a motor there is a tolerance it has to be in, but the "tension on assembly" and "tension after service" as Ducati refers to them are always farther apart than the acceptable range for one or the other.

For those without a dealer near or who just like to tinker it is definitely possible to use a laptop with quality microphone and tuning program to set tension at home... that would produce a reliable result unlike twisting belts and other methods where there is no actual measurable output. You measure roughly half way between the lay shaft pulley and the belt tensioner. Ducati has a tool to mount the measuring module for the DDS, but it will only work with the DDS. You will get a different readout by measuring different parts of the belt. 

as a mechanic my self i agree with what your saying ,the locking of the cams should only be yoused to a help keep ever thing lined up while replaceing belts , but what i would like to know what NOW is the hz for the s2r 1000 cheers bazz

[ducpainter]

Setting the belts with the Ducati tools to the specified spec then loosening to operating spec once tools are removed produce a very reliable result. Bruce verified it with a degree wheel on the 1000DS motor.

The Ducati spec allows +/- 5Hz so there is no perfect number. Like anything on a motor there is a tolerance it has to be in, but the "tension on assembly" and "tension after service" as Ducati refers to them are always farther apart than the acceptable range for one or the other.

For those without a dealer near or who just like to tinker it is definitely possible to use a laptop with quality microphone and tuning program to set tension at home... that would produce a reliable result unlike twisting belts and other methods where there is no actual measurable output. You measure roughly half way between the lay shaft pulley and the belt tensioner. Ducati has a tool to mount the measuring module for the DDS, but it will only work with the DDS. You will get a different readout by measuring different parts of the belt. 

Not positive...

but if the 'Bruce' you are mentioning is the one I'm thinking of...

he probably invented the 5mm allen key method.

Kinda sad he's a numbers man in your world...

he's a fun kinda guy in mine.

[desmoworks]

Not positive...

but if the 'Bruce' you are mentioning is the one I'm thinking of...

he probably invented the 5mm allen key method.

Kinda sad he's a numbers man in your world...

he's a fun kinda guy in mine.

Same Bruce and I know what you are talking about... believe me - but regardless of all that I believe in doing things the best I can and I really don't believe the 5mm allen key method is the best I can do. No more beating the dead horse, I promise - everyone can have an opinion on this subject and it won't change anything.

[desmoworks]

as a mechanic my self i agree with what your saying ,the locking of the cams should only be yoused to a help keep ever thing lined up while replaceing belts , but what i would like to know what NOW is the hz for the s2r 1000 cheers bazz

140 on assembly and 100 after service. 20 Hz is equaly to roughly 5 degrees of cam timing so in this case that is a 10 degree difference.

[Speeddog]

What's the reason for using the locking pins / loose cam pulleys for a belt change?

If you want to remove the effect of the closer springs from the tensioning, that can be done by tensioning the belt at TDC fire.

[Ivan]

What's the reason for using the locking pins / loose cam pulleys for a belt change?

If you want to remove the effect of the closer springs from the tensioning, that can be done by tensioning the belt at TDC fire.

Its not the closer springs that are of concern.  When you adjust the tensioner, it is tending to pull on one side of the belt, which then causes the puller to slightly rotate in a given direction, changing the timing.  If you loosen the puller before tensioning the belt, the tension is applied evenly to the belt, allowing the cam/pulley to stay centered at the desired location while the belt moves. 

[Speeddog]

Let me state it a different way.

If the timing is correctly set already, why re-set it when changing a belt?

It's a toothed belt, so the length can't vary and still work properly.

[bazz20]

140 on assembly and 100 after service. 20 Hz is equaly to roughly 5 degrees of cam timing so in this case that is a 10 degree difference.

thanks for that , now does that retard the cam timming  and why such a big change ,has there been belt problems cheers bazz

[Speeddog]

thanks for that , now does that retard the cam timming  and why such a big change ,has there been belt problems cheers bazz

I'm pretty sure he was referring to using 140 Hz for setting the timing, and using 100Hz for operating the bike.

There have been tensioner and idler roller failures on the DS motors, and belt failures from seized rollers.
AFAIK, ducati has reduced the tension spec to 100 Hz from a higher spec in the past.

[Jethro]

Let me state it a different way.

If the timing is correctly set already, why re-set it when changing a belt?

It's a toothed belt, so the length can't vary and still work properly.

Ivan, are you going to answer this or do you want me to? There is a very good reason.

[Ivan]

Let me state it a different way.

If the timing is correctly set already, why re-set it when changing a belt?

It's a toothed belt, so the length can't vary and still work properly.

Once you remove & replace the belt, the timing is no longer set precisely.  To me it is intuitively obvious that when you apply tension to one side of a belt, it is going to tend to rotate the driven pulley towards that side.  It may not rotate very much, but it will rotate.  Try this thought experiment.... lock the cam & crank into place, don't release the pulley from the cam, and then apply a lot of tension to one side of the belt.  Now pull out the pin that locks the cam into place, I'm betting that you will see the pulley move. 

Releasing the pulley from the cam prior to applying tension allows the tension to be applied evenly on both sides of the driven pulley.  Using the special tools to lock the cam & crank into position while the belt is tensioned ensures that the timing is set the way the factory says it should be.  At least this is the way I see things...  Jethro?

[Speeddog]

Once you remove & replace the belt, the timing is no longer set precisely. 
---------------snip------------------

Why?

[J.P.]

Sounds like I need alot of specialized equipment.
So how much should I expect to pay an expert trained/equipped tech to do it for me?

[Armor]

Once you remove your pin and unlock the cam, its the same as if you never locked the cam.  You cannot be more accurate than a tooth on the belt.