Nov 2nd (Sunday) Private Track Sessions w/ Ty Howard Anyone?

[cdc]

I hope you didn't injure yourself. 

Heal up and we'll see you in a couple of Thursdays.

cdc

[Kevin848]

ECR was a lot of fun... way more demanding than MSR!

Bonnie, glad you could walk away ... so very sorry you could'nt finish out the day and the PS got busted. I know we will see you on the track again! 

CM thanks for brining this up to the board, I wouldnt have known about it otherwise. I think it was really beneficial to my on and off track riding, Ty was very helpful and the chase videos really helped me to understand where I was making mistakes... oh and congrats on the SV I think I need to sale the S2R and get me one of those!!! 

[Bonwilder]

I just cleaned up my bike at 2am......it looks good from the right angle.  

[Kevin848]

I just cleaned up my bike at 2am......it looks good from the right angle.  

I keep telling myself I look good from the right angle hoping one day everybody else will agree with me

Shouldnt you be resting? 

[RED]

Bon, it's very good to hear you are ok. I hope you get to feeling better this week. As the Cowboys will be doing maybe a bye week will do you well.  You said it at MSR bikes can be fixed. We're pulling for you.
Andi says she hopes you get to feeling better soon too.

[cm]

Carlo checking in here...

First of all, I'm glad Bonnie is ok (if you feel funny in the slightest bit, please get yourself checked out. Internal bleeding is always a danger).

The rest of the afternoon went very well. Weather was PERFECT for a track day with the wind just picking up in mid afternoon.  The tires were getting warm from just being in the sun.

As for me, I was pretty happy since I took delivery of my new toy - an SV650 track bike!  I found a well set-up one (been raced in CMRA for a little over 2 seasons and came with a lot of the goodies, including upgraded suspension and woodcraft pieces) locally and the seller seemed very honest. Also helps that Ty was familiar with the bike (he said I'm the 3rd person that he's given lessons to on that bike - and the others are now in riding in CMRA expert classes...).  More importantly, it should be reliable and was very easy to adjust to (about half a session and I started feeling comfortable on it). It also had a few spares (including a brand new set of fairings, front/rear stands, and tire warmers).  Needs some cosmetic clean-up (being a track bike, it has gone down, but has been repaired) but runs great.  Also has limited power (probably around 65hp) so you don't have to worry about the throttle as much, and it does provide you incentive to work on braking and corner speeds (which is what I really want to learn anyway).  I was able to get my right knee down  for the first time ever!  I had so much fun with the SV that I didn't use the 748 the rest of the day!

Kevin was flying!  He also had a ton of fun getting BOTH his knee sliders scraped up on the last session.  I think he should easily be Intermediate at the next AMS track day (and possibly could even run in Advanced/Expert if he wants to escape the crowd judging from what I saw last time). 

Regarding the instruction, Ty really has a knack for quickly identifying what you have to work on and he says the simplest things to allow you to figure it out.  For me, he really helped me understand how to fix my issue with my right turns (my body position is just awful on right turns) and I now know what to look out for.  He also clarified how much I needed to hang off and how to do it properly (not the wrap around the tank thing that you hear about).  PM me for his info if you'd like to set up a session.  If the weather holds up, I may be up for another one before the year is over.

A few other bikes (quite a number of Ducatis) showed up at ECR as well so we had about 6 or so other riders on track, but I really would only see 3-4 per session (as they lapped me).

Ok, now back to the reality of Monday mornings!

[Kevin848]

Carlo checking in here...

First of all, I'm glad Bonnie is ok (if you feel funny in the slightest bit, please get yourself checked out. Internal bleeding is always a danger).

The rest of the afternoon went very well. Weather was PERFECT for a track day with the wind just picking up in mid afternoon.  The tires were getting warm from just being in the sun.

As for me, I was pretty happy since I took delivery of my new toy - an SV650 track bike!  I found a well set-up one (been raced in CMRA for a little over 2 seasons and came with a lot of the goodies, including upgraded suspension and woodcraft pieces) locally and the seller seemed very honest. Also helps that Ty was familiar with the bike (he said I'm the 3rd person that he's given lessons to on that bike - and the others are now in riding in CMRA expert classes...).  More importantly, it should be reliable and was very easy to adjust to (about half a session and I started feeling comfortable on it). It also had a few spares (including a brand new set of fairings, front/rear stands, and tire warmers).  Needs some cosmetic clean-up (being a track bike, it has gone down, but has been repaired) but runs great.  Also has limited power (probably around 65hp) so you don't have to worry about the throttle as much, and it does provide you incentive to work on braking and corner speeds (which is what I really want to learn anyway).  I was able to get my right knee down  for the first time ever!  I had so much fun with the SV that I didn't use the 748 the rest of the day!

Kevin was flying!  He also had a ton of fun getting BOTH his knee sliders scraped up on the last session.  I think he should easily be Intermediate at the next AMS track day (and possibly could even run in Advanced/Expert if he wants to escape the crowd judging from what I saw last time). 

Regarding the instruction, Ty really has a knack for quickly identifying what you have to work on and he says the simplest things to allow you to figure it out.  For me, he really helped me understand how to fix my issue with my right turns (my body position is just awful on right turns) and I now know what to look out for.  He also clarified how much I needed to hang off and how to do it properly (not the wrap around the tank thing that you hear about).  PM me for his info if you'd like to set up a session.  If the weather holds up, I may be up for another one before the year is over.

A few other bikes (quite a number of Ducatis) showed up at ECR as well so we had about 6 or so other riders on track, but I really would only see 3-4 per session (as they lapped me).

Ok, now back to the reality of Monday mornings!

Thanks for the encouraging words Carlo. You were running really quick yourself! Even with the HP advantage I had, it was WORK to keep up with you at times!  [moto]

[bryant8]

I may have to try and do one of these private lesson days next year.  If time permits 

[RichD]

I wouldn't mind doing as many track days with instruction (or even without) as I can...

I like the AMS Ducati track days a whole bunch.
There is something to be said about the guy next to you having as much (or more) money in his bike as you do.  There is a lot to be said for not having a bunch of kids on used R6's finding out what they don't know, on the inside of you, mid-turn!  If I or a friend have a problem with a bike everyone at a Ducati track day has similar equipment, spares, knowledge, etc.  And of course there is the AMS crew for help too.


I have never ridden as fast as I can behind Jeff Nash!
Like skiing behind a nine year old kid (for those that have -you know they are so good they'll piss you off!)
just follow his lines and mimic his technique and away you go!
...but his track days were usually during the week -and work often has me tied up.

I was talking to Toni about that the other day and she said the last Saturday track day was a big success
and they were looking into possibly doing more on Saturdays (and MAYBE Sunday too).
If this is something you would want CALL THEM  (or stop by) and voice your opinion.

I'm sure I could learn a lot from most any good rider (certainly Ty Howard is in that group!)
but I still have a long way to go before I can say I've learned all I can from Jeff
and I feel "safe" in the enviornment he has at his trackdays.
After all, I don't want to push too hard on the learning curve.
I do enough paint and body work as it is!   

Not to take anything away from Ty, but I'll wait for his point of view until I learn a little bit more
-or until he comes to a Ducati track day!   

[pipeliner1978]

Yeah, to me it was a totally different feel at the private track day than with the Ducati group.  It was pretty dead there, just a bunch of Porches, Corvettes and couple of Mazdas.  I think with the exception of CM's new trackbike and his 748, the Paul Smart was the "cheap bike" on the track.  I've never done a Ride Smart track day, but I can only assume it's filled with kids on R6s doing whatever they think is right.  Fortunately for Kevin, Bonnie and Carlo the other riders there were members only and seemed to be seasoned riders. 
But like I said earlier, it was a completely different feel.  It was like....you're on your own.  Bonnie and her bike hit the track (not dirt) really hard and I swear she got up and stood there beside her bike waiting for someone to come help her.  I would bet it was atleat 5-7 minutes before the "rescue" truck showed up.  She got tired of standing beside her downed bike and finally fealt that she would pick it up herself.  She then walked across the track to the flagger who never even went down to help her.  It was really weird. 
That's one thing I can say I really appreciated about the AMS track day, you had corner helpers and Jeff was always right there to help. 

[Cyclone]

  Awesome commentary on the trackdays Duke & Pipeliner - I'm learnin' just reading !   I appreciate your candor & your opinions ! I really feel for BWilder and her painful learning experiences, the dedication is inspiring ! 

[cm]

I wouldn't mind doing as many track days with instruction (or even without) as I can...

I like the AMS Ducati track days a whole bunch.
There is something to be said about the guy next to you having as much (or more) money in his bike as you do.  There is a lot to be said for not having a bunch of kids on used R6's finding out what they don't know, on the inside of you, mid-turn!  If I or a friend have a problem with a bike everyone at a Ducati track day has similar equipment, spares, knowledge, etc.  And of course there is the AMS crew for help too.


I have never ridden as fast as I can behind Jeff Nash!
Like skiing behind a nine year old kid (for those that have -you know they are so good they'll piss you off!)
just follow his lines and mimic his technique and away you go!
...but his track days were usually during the week -and work often has me tied up.

I was talking to Toni about that the other day and she said the last Saturday track day was a big success
and they were looking into possibly doing more on Saturdays (and MAYBE Sunday too).
If this is something you would want CALL THEM  (or stop by) and voice your opinion.

I'm sure I could learn a lot from most any good rider (certainly Ty Howard is in that group!)
but I still have a long way to go before I can say I've learned all I can from Jeff
and I feel "safe" in the enviornment he has at his trackdays.
After all, I don't want to push too hard on the learning curve.
I do enough paint and body work as it is!   

Not to take anything away from Ty, but I'll wait for his point of view until I learn a little bit more
-or until he comes to a Ducati track day!   

It was funny how I was just mentioning to the group that went on Sunday that everyone seems to have a 'favorite' track day and puts a little bit more negative light on other track days.  I hope that these statements were made with some research and actual experience.  Having attended track days from MOST of everyone that puts them on over the last 3 months (ok, I haven't made it the one put up by Eurocycle in Ft. Worth or Buell but let me see...RideSmart, Texas Track Days, Lone Star Track Days, private member day, private instruction with Ty, and of course AMS Ducati's track day....and several of them multiple times), this is precisely the type of attitude that puts a little bit of that negative (snobby) light on Ducati owners.

C'mon guy, doesn't it seem a bit odd that you want to be on track with someone that has as 'much money (or more) in their bike'...I guess I must be doing fine since I just chose to bring some cheap old bone stock 748 to the track...everyone else has as much or more in their bikes than me...

Here's an objective opinion of the AMS track day - the prevalence of the Ducati marque and the euro brands definitely lend a different feel to the event and that's something to enjoy.  The red bikes, the banners, the sound of the the desmo motors and dry clutches...However, I wouldn't call it a much 'safer' environment , at least compared to other track days.  It's only 'safer' than some events because there were less bikes on track, but in terms of number of corner workers, adherence to safety rules, etc...it's not a whole lot different than other track organizations.  For example, the last TTD event at MSR actually was 'safer' , i.e. no crashes of any sort and actually had someone get kicked out for violating safety rules.  The AMS Ducati day had at least 2 crashes and I don't recall any enforcements for violating the safety rules.  In terms of rule violations - the instructors were busy breaking their own rules...I personally was passed approaching the apex of Little Bend by one of them riding a Desmo. That's passing in a corner (on the inside no less, at least they should pass on the outside) as I was already darn close to my full lean for that corner...in Intermediate group which doesn't allow passing in corners.  Another one recounted how he was passed around Rattlesnake/Wagonwheel in Novice by another instructor on a Desmo (don't know if it's the same one).   There was also a Desmo on track during one of my sessions with brakelight on and mirrors untaped. Gee, how did that bike pass tech?! (brakelights are a safety concern with bikes because the lights are very distracting...and mirrors catching the light at the right time is another one).

Jeff Nash is a great instructor (and I am still trying to find time to try his version of the private track days) and AMS puts on a good show (for almost twice the price as the cheapest track day organizer - it better!), but the real news is that most track days are more similar to each other than you would think.  It's the riders that make a difference and to a certain degree, a more mature crowd did show up at the last AMS track day.  However, that isn't to say that everyone 'behaved' more or less than ANY OTHER track day.  

Bottomline, if you bring a bike to the track, or even ride it on the street, you take risks.  Track days are NOT races so I always judge their 'safety' by adherence to the safety rules and consequences of breaking them.  In my book, the AMS track day was generally average in that regard....and remember, to someone out there, a 1098r is probably worth as much as some used R6, and if they cause my bike, and more importantly, me any injury, I don't think the type of bike they are riding matters.

By the way, objectively speaking again, Ty's sessions at ECR cost the same as Jeff's private sessions and there are a LOT more students in Jeff's sessions (though I think he brings Derek along also).  We had a 3-1 student/instrucor ratio (and really more like 2:1 most of the day when we were doing 1-on-1 videotape feedback after every session).

FYI, I also don't need to be going to track days for track time (I can do member days at Eagles Canyon whenever it's open for cheaper than any track day and far less bikes)...but I go because  it's fun being out with different people and enjoying the track camaraderie.  Also, different instructors say things differently and teach differently, so exposing yourself to other qualified points of view besides Jeff Nash may just turn on that light bulb!  I was thinking about it the other day but good riders ride by feel...and any instructor can only teach you so much (and mostly limited to what they can visually give feedback to)...so the only way to get better is to take some feedback and get some seat time.

If I just waited for AMS track days, I don't think I'd be able to improve as much as I have in 3 months...

Anyway, I hope to see everyone out there on the track more and yes, I will try and stop by AMS and let them know that I enjoyed their track day and they need to do more! The more motorcycle track days are out there, the more the tracks may pay more attention to motorcycle 'stuff' since all the tracks are predominantly car tracks and are maintained with cars in mind as first priority.

[RichD]

C'mon guy, doesn't it seem a bit odd that you want to be on track with someone that has as 'much money (or more) in their bike'

It doen't seem odd to me.
For the same reason when the D16RR's were all on the track nobody else was.
I would hate to make a mistake that would put one of those at risk.

I didn't mean to come across as snobby,
-just cautious.

sorry.

[cm]

Yeah, to me it was a totally different feel at the private track day than with the Ducati group.  It was pretty dead there, just a bunch of Porches, Corvettes and couple of Mazdas.  I think with the exception of CM's new trackbike and his 748, the Paul Smart was the "cheap bike" on the track.  I've never done a Ride Smart track day, but I can only assume it's filled with kids on R6s doing whatever they think is right.  Fortunately for Kevin, Bonnie and Carlo the other riders there were members only and seemed to be seasoned riders. 
But like I said earlier, it was a completely different feel.  It was like....you're on your own.  Bonnie and her bike hit the track (not dirt) really hard and I swear she got up and stood there beside her bike waiting for someone to come help her.  I would bet it was atleat 5-7 minutes before the "rescue" truck showed up.  She got tired of standing beside her downed bike and finally fealt that she would pick it up herself.  She then walked across the track to the flagger who never even went down to help her.  It was really weird. 
That's one thing I can say I really appreciated about the AMS track day, you had corner helpers and Jeff was always right there to help. 

Member days are different in that you are on your own...By the way, corner workers are NOT supposed to come down and help. They are supposed to keep the flag waving and stay there.  I happened to know the corner worker on Corner 3 and he is a very experienced corner worker and safety guy (also flags for Porsche races).  If I rider is standing up, and seem ok, they will make sure that everyone else on track doesn't add to the incident.  There was an incident at one track day I attended were the corner worker ran to the downed rider who had spilled oil all over the entrance of Turn 6.  There were at least 2 other riders that went down since there was no flag in sight.

The rescue cart/trailer had to be rigged up to a truck which is what caused the delay.  If Bonnie did not get up, there would have been a different reaction.  Ty is basically another rider that has to follow the same rules on a Member day. He's not allowed out there like any other rider.

The number of support personnel during an organized track day is far greater than a member day.  There are usually a ton of vendors that can provide equipment support for bikes, etc. that are not present during member days.

I wouldn't expect any more support for any of the AMS private sessions either.  I haven't been to one so I don't know if they do anything special, but I've been to member days at MSR as well and it's pretty similar to ECR (though they now have some businesses based there so there may be more luck finding more 'support').

...and if you all ever decide to rent a track on your own (about a dozen or so of us did that at TWS several years ago with cars), it's all your choice on how many corner stations are manned (if at all), or whether you even have a crash truck...

By the way, Ridesmart events definitely have more of the younger crowd (hey, there was a 10yr old there that was flying in his minibike last time I went out with them).  There's that price filter in place for other events (Ridesmart charges $120 and gives discounts to several clubs...even military personnel). However, I wouldn't stereotype it as 'full of kids on R6's doing what they want'.  They're definitely more represented but there are others out there as well that I would trust to ride with.  In fact, there are some regulars (graybeards) that were more similar in look/profile to some of the members riding on Sunday (one of those guys was racing since 1981!) and I would feel safer riding with them (well, for the brief periods I see them when they lap me).  Not sure whether the big Ducati contingent arrived after you and Bonnie left but last Sunday had a lot of Ducs on the track.

[cm]

It doen't seem odd to me.
For the same reason when the D16RR's were all on the track nobody else was.
I would hate to make a mistake that would put one of those at risk.

I didn't mean to come across as snobby,
-just cautious.

sorry.

The D16RRs being on track by themselves  was a bit snobby (and some marketing) in my opinion.  What bike was being ridden had nothing to do with the rider's ability and to be safe. It was a 'statement' that someone had to have $70k+ to be able to run that session (or at least access to someone who had the cash) and sure made a great marketing video/scenario. Sure, a portion of our track fees and track time was allocated for those sessions and it was really entertaining seeing those bikes on track so it was worth the price of admission.  However, putting it in perspective, cars costing twice that much (or more)  are put on the race track with a lot less exclusion. In the world of the  track, bikes are cheap. $70k doesn't even get you a properly prepped Porsche GT3...so why all the fuss?