Interesting riding style. Comments?

[El Matador]

Dude seems to be getting some insane cornerspeed like this, but I wonder how effective it really is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiLQ7Vf1t5k

[derby]

what makes you think his cornerspeed is any higher than somebody with a "traditional" style?

[Ducatiloo]

Who was that who took the corners like that in the last year of 500 cc GP?

[gm2]

Gary McCoy.  he's back and still regularly breaking his bones in WSS.

(and this whole thread is like a timewarp)

[Jester]

Getting good drive off the corners with no spin vs. getting good drive off the corners with spin?  You may run fast for a bit, while lighting up the rear like that, but your rubber is going to go off under you if this is a long race.  Honestly I think Hayden's biggest problem is this type of riding style.  He slides his bike all over the place, and he fades out at the end of every race too.  He always complains about his tires going away... well there might be a reason for it.

You can ride like this, but its going to end in a highside eventually, or its at least going to shred your rear tire much faster than normal.

[derby]

Getting good drive off the corners with no spin vs. getting good drive off the corners with spin?  You may run fast for a bit, while lighting up the rear like that, but your rubber is going to go off under you if this is a long race. 

that's not entirely true. i remember an interview w/ gary mccoy's tire engineer where he said that it he didn't have any excessive tire wear due to his style.

tires are going to slide no matter what. it's just a matter of how much they slide.

Honestly I think Hayden's biggest problem is this type of riding style.  He slides his bike all over the place, and he fades out at the end of every race too.  He always complains about his tires going away... well there might be a reason for it.

look at nicky's race at indy (where he was sliding everywhere)... his late-race fade was chalked up more to picking the wrong compound than his riding style.

i think it's less about the tires and more that the 800 requires a different riding style, period.

You can ride like this, but its going to end in a highside eventually...

well, that's another thing that mccoy showed us. 

[Jester]

his late-race fade was chalked up more to picking the wrong compound than his riding style.

Arguable Derby, but I would figure had he gone with a harder compound, then he wouldn't have been able to run as hard either, no?  Harder compound probably wouldn't have been as grippy in those conditions?  Correct me if I'm wrong... I don't mind being wrong.

[ducpainter]

  Correct me if I'm wrong... I don't mind being wrong.

I don't either...

but I'm not going to admit it to derby...

[El Matador]

what makes you think his cornerspeed is any higher than somebody with a "traditional" style?

The fact that he seems to be going much faster than anyone else 

I don't either...

but I'm not going to admit it to derby...

[SP3]

The fact that he seems to be going much faster than anyone else 

Means nothing since we don't know what the other bikes are, how each is prepped, what the other riders skills are, ....

We do know that the guy on the camera bike had no problems at all keeping up with "fast guy".

[derby]

We do know that the guy on the camera bike had no problems at all keeping up with "fast guy".

cam guy seems to have to over-brake in the turns to keep his distance, too.

[BastrdHK]

that's not entirely true. i remember an interview w/ gary mccoy's tire engineer where he said that it he didn't have any excessive tire wear due to his style.

tires are going to slide no matter what. it's just a matter of how much they slide.

That reference to McCoy is from the Faster dvd.  They said that the carcass of the tire stayed cooler and deteriorated less during the race b/c he was only heating up the surface.  Compounds have likely gotten much better, and that riding style requires you to be on the razors edge of grip/cornerspeed/drive to be effective every corner for 20+ laps.  Qualifying yes.....full race distance......to inconsistent to win.  A valuable skill to have when conditions aren't optimal, but not wise to force this style on every corner of every circuit.  Unless you like bones that look like 

[derby]

Arguable Derby, but I would figure had he gone with a harder compound, then he wouldn't have been able to run as hard either, no?  Harder compound probably wouldn't have been as grippy in those conditions?  Correct me if I'm wrong... I don't mind being wrong.

i probably shoudn't have used indy as an example. it was a wet race at the beginning and end and he wore most of the tread off during the middle, drier portion of the race. as a result, he had a significant traction deficit when it started raining again.

[RST]

That guy's not going fast and I'm not sure that he's trying to.  He's just playing around for the camera.  I guarantee that he's not riding like that when he's racing.

There was a fat kid a few trackdays ago that rode like that. He was an idiot and a hazard on the tack.  Had he kept it up that day would have been my first time in four years of track riding that I would have complained about somebody's riding to the officials.  In the second session he almost highsided right in front of me and completely blew the corner in a big way.  None of us saw any of him for the rest of the day.

Cary McCoy was backing it in, sliding around the entire turn.  Guy in the video more or less parks it, then hammers the throttle to spin up the rear a little.  There is an amazingly huge difference in skill between those two "styles".

-R.

[derby]

That reference to McCoy is from the Faster dvd.  They said that the carcass of the tire stayed cooler and deteriorated less during the race b/c he was only heating up the surface. 

yeah, it was mentioned there, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGIPmTLSxGI

Compounds have likely gotten much better, and that riding style requires you to be on the razors edge of grip/cornerspeed/drive to be effective every corner for 20+ laps.  Qualifying yes.....full race distance......to inconsistent to win.  A valuable skill to have when conditions aren't optimal, but not wise to force this style on every corner of every circuit.  Unless you like bones that look like 

again, i think it's more that the bikes are requiring a different riding style than the tires. nicky, in no uncertain terms, seemed to convey that they rc212 spring-valve motor was "too tame," and that the monster power delivery of the air-valve motor was more his style. his results certainly improved w/ the new motor. of course, there was that whole running out of fuel incident and then we're back to talking about tires and questioning their durability which, to be honest, has been hit or miss for michelin the last two years.

for example, colin doesn't come from a flat track, slide it everywhere background and he hasn't exactly been singing the praises of frog rubber this season. quite the opposite, actually.