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The "Ben Spies" Rule - Limited Engines For Wildcards

Started by gm2, December 13, 2009, 04:20:24 AM

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gm2

December 13, 2009, 04:20:24 AM
Like this is the racing, no?

ducpainter

#1
December 13, 2009, 04:34:03 AM
It's one of the few new rules that makes sense.
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ducatiz

#2
December 13, 2009, 06:09:33 AM
two bikes for the entire season for all wildcard riders?

i'd say that is hyper-restrictive.

seems to me they could limit the # of engines to the same rider at least.
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ducpainter

#3
December 13, 2009, 06:11:14 AM
They're taking the grand out of grand prix.
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ducatiz

#4
December 13, 2009, 06:16:37 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on December 13, 2009, 06:11:14 AM
They're taking the grand out of grand prix.

and changing prix to pricks?
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mostrobelle

#5
December 13, 2009, 06:29:38 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on December 13, 2009, 06:09:33 AM
two bikes for the entire season for all wildcard riders?

i'd say that is hyper-restrictive.

seems to me they could limit the # of engines to the same rider at least.

...but generally a wildcard is a one-race kind of deal, right?  (I'm not totally up on all the GP history, so maybe I'm wrong on this.)  So basically if any team runs just one wildcard, they get two more engines to test for the entire season than the other teams that never enter a wildcard.  How many teams enter wildcards anyway, and why do they enter them--to try the rider or their technology?  (Serious question.)  While I can see that this rule could stifle the number of wildcard riders because of the lack of incentive due to restrictions on testing new motors, should it have an effect on those teams that wish to test out new riders because they show promise? 

I guess the bigger question for me is why wildcards exist at all and what effect their (possibly) more limited presence might do to GP racing.  I can only think of one race where Troy Bayliss trounced everyone else in a GP race as a wildcard--is that right?  Every other time it seems they are at the back of the pack and they crash a lot.  I haven't heard of anyone being given a GP contract based on their performance as a wildcard, but once again, my knowledge of GP history is limited to the past four or five years.   
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derby

#6
December 13, 2009, 07:30:46 AM Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 07:32:28 AM by derby
Quote from: mostrobelle on December 13, 2009, 06:29:38 AM

I guess the bigger question for me is why wildcards exist at all and what effect their (possibly) more limited presence might do to GP racing.  I can only think of one race where Troy Bayliss trounced everyone else in a GP race as a wildcard--is that right?  Every other time it seems they are at the back of the pack and they crash a lot.  I haven't heard of anyone being given a GP contract based on their performance as a wildcard, but once again, my knowledge of GP history is limited to the past four or five years.   

back in the 500gp days, the japanese wildcards were to be truly feared.

abe challenged for the lead (against doohan and shwantz, before crashing out of the race with 3 laps to go) in '94. this earned him a ride on the factory yamaha.

kato took 3rd in '96 and won in '97 and '98.

haga finished 3rd as a wildcard in '98.

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gm2

#7
December 13, 2009, 07:37:55 AM Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 07:39:41 AM by gm2
currently however, wildcards are rare.  

2 additional engines by 2010 limitation math is 6 races, or 1/3 of the season.  not necessarily so restrictive.

(or 3, depending on how you look at it.  the guy who won the 250 title last year did it with 1 bike.. you don't have to have two.)
Like this is the racing, no?

mostrobelle

#8
December 13, 2009, 07:49:03 AM
Quote from: derby on December 13, 2009, 07:30:46 AM
back in the 500gp days, the japanese wildcards were to be truly feared.

abe challenged for the lead (against doohan and shwantz, before crashing out of the race with 3 laps to go) in '94. this earned him a ride on the factory yamaha.

kato took 3rd in '96 and won in '97 and '98.

haga finished 3rd as a wildcard in '98.



A backlash to this new rule based on the above seems more justified, but all that was 10+ years ago.  The rule was instated based on an oversight--one that no one took advantage of when they had the opportunity to.  What's changed in a decade I wonder?
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gm2

#9
December 13, 2009, 07:53:55 AM
Quote from: mostrobelle on December 13, 2009, 07:49:03 AM
What's changed in a decade I wonder?

factory vs satellite success.

electronics.

and, before 2009, testing time wasn't so rare.  honda only took advantage of a wildcard rider in 2008 b/c the've been sucking since the introduction of the 800s.. so they needed to rush along the pneumatic valve engine.
Like this is the racing, no?

desmoquattro

#10
December 13, 2009, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: gm2 on December 13, 2009, 07:53:55 AM
factory vs satellite success.

electronics.

and, before 2009, testing time wasn't so rare.  honda only took advantage of a wildcard rider in 2008 b/c the've been sucking since the introduction of the 800s.. so they needed to rush along the pneumatic valve engine.

and the switch to 4-strokes, with their exponential cost increases over the two-strokes. Right?
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zooom

#11
December 14, 2009, 02:08:13 AM
so....aside from Spies doing the 3 wildcard rides for Zuke in '08 and then the 1 for Yamaha this past season.....who else has done repeated "wildcard" rides for anyone? this I assume would not include substitute rides like Esparago this past year....but who knows.
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