GUN STUFF

[rgramjet]

One of the major reasons to leave the Glock trigger stock, is, if it is your social gun and you have to use it for self defense, prosecutors use that modification to try to sell juries that you modified the gun to be more lethal or that you purposely defeated the "safety" of the firearm to demonstrate to the jury that you are not a good guy.

If the gun is for fun or competition only, there are a number of options for trigger pull modification on the Glocks.

Does that include a drop in full auto sear?

[WarrenJ]

I'v had the opportunity to shoot a Glock 18, 3 shot burst gun.  Pretty darn fun!

[Statler]

One of the major reasons to leave the Glock trigger stock, is, if it is your social gun and you have to use it for self defense, prosecutors use that modification to try to sell juries that you modified the gun to be more lethal or that you purposely defeated the "safety" of the firearm to demonstrate to the jury that you are not a good guy.

any case citation to get this one out of the urban legend in the gun community please.  Otherwise just some law student's 'what if' academic hypothetical.   If you're justified in lethal force criminally, the argument stops there.

[Snake]

I just did the trigger on my XDm with a kit from powder river precision.  The pull is about 3lbs now and there is less pre-travel and almost no overtravel.  The whole point of dropping the pull weight is so you have less opportunity to move the gun while pulling the trigger.  You would be amazed at how much my groups tightened up after changing the trigger on both guns.

[WarrenJ]

any case citation to get this one out of the urban legend in the gun community please.  Otherwise just some law student's 'what if' academic hypothetical.   If you're justified in lethal force criminally, the argument stops there.

I agree with you in general but any lever you can take from a prosecutor is a good thing.  This was stressed in our LFI-1 course with Massad Ayoob, who has went through a great many courtroom defenses on these issues as an expert witness.
Local attorneys and law enforcement that attend the class confirmed a definite bias against "tricked out" weapons being used in self defense.  If you were completely in the right, had good witnesses, conducted yourself properly before, during and after the confrontation, have good representation, a fair prosecutor and intelligent jury, a modified gun is certainly not a show stopper. 

I have many highly modified guns for competition, etc but my social guns are bone stock or close to it.  You are certainly free to use whatever you want, but I will keep mine stock.  No sense making an incredibly traumatic post shooting situation any harder than it has to be for little or no gain.

[cyrus buelton]

any case citation to get this one out of the urban legend in the gun community please.  Otherwise just some law student's 'what if' academic hypothetical.   If you're justified in lethal force criminally, the argument stops there.

I was wondering that.

If someone breaks into my residence with a firearm and I put them down, I was legally justified due to the castle doctrine (at least that is what the lawyer in the CCW class said. I could very well be wrong). Therefore, I wouldn't even have to go to court.......if the DA determined it was justified self defense.

therefore, why would it matter if I dropped the trigger pull weight?


God, if that is the case with trigger pull weight and I mow down an intruder with Saiga.........I'd really be make the beast with two backsed.

One of the major reasons to leave the Glock trigger stock, is, if it is your social gun and you have to use it for self defense, prosecutors use that modification to try to sell juries that you modified the gun to be more lethal or that you purposely defeated the "safety" of the firearm to demonstrate to the jury that you are not a good guy.

If the gun is for fun or competition only, there are a number of options for trigger pull modification on the Glocks.

Glock 19 is one of my carry guns. The others are a Kahr CW9 and a USP-45 Compact. Also have 2 small .32's, but have yet to carry those as I have not shot them enough to feel comfortable carrying one or the other.

I just did the trigger on my XDm with a kit from powder river precision.  The pull is about 3lbs now and there is less pre-travel and almost no overtravel.  The whole point of dropping the pull weight is so you have less opportunity to move the gun while pulling the trigger.  You would be amazed at how much my groups tightened up after changing the trigger on both guns.

that's the answer I was looking for.

I don't like the groups on my Glock 19. Sure, I keep them all center mass, but the group isn't as tight as some of my other guns and I don't particular like it.

I talked to Kopjager quite a bit through PM about my inability to shoot Glocks and he diagnosed me with a bad pull, so I took his advice and started to actually get some better grouping out of it and not spray them all high left.

[ducatiz]

any case citation to get this one out of the urban legend in the gun community please.  Otherwise just some law student's 'what if' academic hypothetical.   If you're justified in lethal force criminally, the argument stops there.

i track prosecutions for this stuff, and to my knowledge it's not been used. 

changing a trigger weight is subtle.  unless the investigators know to look for it, they won't care what the trigger weight is.  simple as that.  if the firearm was set up as a booby-trap, they might disassemble it OR if the firearms was suspected of being an illegally converted machine gun, but in the 10 years of cases I've looked at, never once. 

the #1 thing homeowner's are gotten on is "lying in wait."  even in Maryland, which is a "retreat first" state, prosecutions against homeowners who shoot an intruder (where there is some evidence of lethal intent ) are extremely rare.

[Statler]

Anything on the civil side, 'tiz?

[cyrus buelton]

i track prosecutions for this stuff, and to my knowledge it's not been used. 

changing a trigger weight is subtle.  unless the investigators know to look for it, they won't care what the trigger weight is.  simple as that.  if the firearm was set up as a booby-trap, they might disassemble it OR if the firearms was suspected of being an illegally converted machine gun, but in the 10 years of cases I've looked at, never once. 

the #1 thing homeowner's are gotten on is "lying in wait."  even in Maryland, which is a "retreat first" state, prosecutions against homeowners who shoot an intruder (where there is some evidence of lethal intent ) are extremely rare.

Whatever happened to that kid who hacked up the robber with the medieval sword?

Anything on the civil side, 'tiz?

If Castle Doctrine is in place, wouldn't that protect the homeowner if you are within your "4 walls of living" space?

[Monsterlover]

for us non law guys can someone sum up "lying in wait" and "retreat first state?"

edit- never mind. . .reading wiki now

[zarn02]

If someone breaks into my residence with a firearm and I put them down, I was legally justified due to the castle doctrine (at least that is what the lawyer in the CCW class said. I could very well be wrong). Therefore, I wouldn't even have to go to court.......if the DA determined it was justified self defense.

In Ohio this may be the case. It certainly isn't true everywhere.

Wikipedia has breakdown of which states have what sort of Castle laws here.

[zarn02]

Also, Wikipedia's list is a couple years old. No guarantee things haven't changed, so you may want to check the local laws.

[DRKWNG]

I am sure people have, but wanted to check.....


Anyone dropped the trigger pull on a Glock?

I believe my glock 19 stands at 6.5lbs and would like to drop it lower.

Are there several weight options out there or only one?

Easy install or a gunsmithing job?

what exactly is the advantage of dropping the weight?

Shorter pull of the trigger or just a lighter pull?

or a combination?


I've never fired a gun that has had trigger work done, but a lot seem to do it, so inquiring as to the main advantages verse disadvantages.


(note: I don't have trouble pulling the trigger due to weight)

Wait a sec, you wanted to do a mod to your weapon even though you didn't have a clear idea what the end result would be?

[cyrus buelton]

for us non law guys can someone sum up "lying in wait" and "retreat first state?"

In Ohio, "retreat first" means that if you have the opportunity to avoid lethal force and "retreat" or "move to a safe area" that is your option.

for example, someone comes up to your car, with your window down and pulls a knife and demands your money.

do you draw and shoot them?

or

do you drive away?



It also applies to simply drawing your weapon as when you do that, lethal force has been introduced.

So if I see someone breaking into my car with a hammer outside my house and I confront them, and they turn to me......


I could run back inside and lock my door

or

do I shoot them?



roll the dice.


I am sure Izaak and Chris will be able to provide you a more thorough answer since I am not an attorney, that is just what my notes say from my class during the legal portion.

In Ohio this may be the case. It certainly isn't true everywhere.

That is how it was legally defined to me

Wait a sec, you wanted to do a mod to your weapon even though you didn't have a clear idea what the end result would be?

I had an assumption of what it would do. That is why I asked the question.

[cyrus buelton]

Monsterlover and Zarn

http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/getattachment/6cbc82c0-21e6-4db1-b6e0-545e3970ee03/2009-Concealed-Carry-Laws-Booklet.aspx


Start on page 26 if you have any interest in the Three Conditions in Ohio, definition of retreat and Ohio's Castle Doctrine.

Posted purely for info to back my posting above. In no way, shape, or form was it meant to be political.