Your impressions on a product idea...?

[Artful]

I'm a sign guy by trade and a motorcycle nut by birth.

I like going on long rides to get lost when I'm by myself or with one or two other guys, but on longer rides or ones that involve more than a few bikes you never want to just get lost because there is always one guy that doesn't know how fuel tanks work, gets separated, or just doesn't like the idea of not knowing where in the hell they are going.

I don't like GPS units on bikes, mostly because I think it spoils the "Free" experience somehow more so than a map would (I know it's irrational but well... deal). You can't really ride with a map on the tank without a tank bag (which only a few people in a ride even own), and a map can be tough to read at speed anyway.

So I thought to myself... "Self, what would work really well for keeping everyone on the right path on a complex route, be impervious to weather, and not require expensive handlebar mounts or GPS units?"

This is what I came up with. A simple list of directions printed on a waterproof vinyl material that conforms to the shape of the tank. The size can be adjusted for different models, but most bikes have at least a 6"x6" flat spot to adhere such a decal. The material is designed to apply without bubbles, leave no adhesive when it's removed (or damage paint) and the equipment I'm using will allow down to about 4pt text, which is barely legible anyway. I'll be using this on a group ride coming up soon, I'll let you know how the text size (7pt) works while riding.





The decals would cost about $8 each up to a quantity of 15 (minimum 5), then could go down from there. I created this one using directions off of Google Maps and filtered it down to the essentials in Word.

So, here are the questions I'm curious to have your impressions on:

1. Would something like this make your route planning and group rides easier?
2. Would you be willing to pay $8 a decal for this functionality?
3. What other information would be handy to have on the decal?
4. Would an additional map decal be useful as well even if there was an additional charge? (I can print full color images as well as just the text)

Mods/Admin - I'm not selling these so hopefully this isn't misunderstood as a commercial post. Just developing something I thought might come in handy for the community.

[DarkStaR]

Kinda hard to read a map in that particular location...

Still seems as if this might be easier, and you can still somewhat keep your eyes toward the road:

[The Bearded Duc]

I too have been thinking about this a lot lately. I also don't have, nor would I really like to have a tank bag for the same reason you've stated above. (the whole getting lost on the bike and enjoying it thing)

First, I think people are leaning more towards GPS units, despite mounting issues, because of the ease of use. Being able to plug in a destination and then to select whether or not to avoid highways is just plain easy. Then all you have to do is follow the little arrow, again, easy.

I like the idea of traveling with a map, although I don't, because there seems to be a certain level of fun that comes with "navigating" your trip. The problem with the map is, like you said, it's almost impossible to read at speed. The only other solution is to stop, read the map, then try to remember everything after that.

I like the idea of the "quarterback" gauntlet DarkStaR showed because you avoid taking your eyes off the road as much as possible.

I also think your idea is a good one but, and don't take this the wrong way, it needs to thought through a bit more. To just offer someone the option to buy a blank vinyl decal doesn't really do much for the ease factor that I think most people are looking for. They still have to go through the process of deciding their route, copying their directions in Word, and then printing them out on the vinyl. Seems like somewhat of a tedious process for most.

Another option would be, and this may be time consuming for you but might be worth it in the long run, is to try to put together some sort of web site, with the help of everyone here on the forum, that has links for all of the routes that we ride. Again, it's something that you could add to as you go. All of the routes don't have to be available from the start. To continue, you can then shorten the directions to resemble what you have pictured and offer that as a printable version right from the web site. In regards to the vinyl sheets, you could then offer them in packs of say 10 for $60. That way all anyone would have to do is go to the website, click the link to the route they want and print away.

Another option still...and yet still time consuming for you. Offer the sheets in packs, by region, already printed. For instance, I live in Los Angeles, say I wanted to purchase a "pack of routes" from you. You could offer the vinyl sheets already printed with the routes for Angels Crest Highway, GMR, The 33 to Ojai, Mulholland Highway, and maybe Stunt Road for a little more than the price you're already asking.

For both of these ideas you could also offer the options for longer trips, maybe state to state routes?

Anyhow, these are just ideas and perhaps they're no good at all. I would love to brainstorm on this more, gets my gears moving!! (Oh, and if it does turn into something you make money with I only require 70%   )

Oh, and to answer your question about other info that might be helpful. Maybe gas stations or mechanics for the longer trips. And, again, if you just want to brainstorm feel free to PM me.

[Howie]

Do you mean something like these:
http://www.rollcharts.org
click on equipment.

One thing GPS will do that a roll chart won't is get you "unlost"

[Artful]

All great ideas duc750, particularly the "location pack".

To clarify, these would come preprinted (the equipment to print them as durably as they are isn't 'consumer grade'). The reason I'm charging more than a few cents (the cost of the vinyl) is the work involved with shortening the Google Maps route into a usable, legible format on the decals. It doesn't seem realistic to offer the service of 'send me the route, I'll clean it up and print it for you' the more I think about the work involved with that.

A Location Pack idea though would be more viable as I could have several pre-designed for a certain area. Thanks for the idea, if these ever actually happen you'll have a free set

Few things that need to change now that I've ridden with it:

1. Alternating colors for finding individual directions faster.

2. Higher position on the tank, impossible to read with a full face helmet unless I get my chin against my chest and that's a recipe for disaster.

3. Lamination, on a warm tank that's been sitting in the sun the material gets really soft. Still applies like a champ, but I'm pretty damn good at applying vinyl, gotta remember this will be applied by n00bs.

[Slide Panda]

I've done something similar with masking tape and plain old paper. Same idea, just more ghetto. From experience - 7pt will be impossible to read while moving. It's small enough when sitting still... but I'm guessing it'd be up to the final user to format their text.

Would you be able to make a letter sized sheet that people could run through an inkjet that's been pre cut?

[Artful]

The problem is that in order to get aqueous ink (the stuff in your deskjet) to stick to vinyl there has to be a coating. That coating negates the waterproof feature, and the ink will run if it gets wet.

The material I'm using is the same stuff they use to do vehicle wraps:


It's incredibly high tech for a vinyl material and has a ton of properties that make it easy to apply and incredibly durable. The downside is that it can't be printed by just anyone. You need a commercial printer that runs just under $20k to get the image or text to stick and be outdoor durable.

I didn't have much issue reading 7 pt, but I do have 29 year old eyes (even if they're terrible and require birth control glasses). The issue was that trying to isolate a line of text was tough, hence alternating colors in the next prototype.

[Popeye the Sailor]

I have a tank bag with a clear map area.


I just write my directions down (if it matters where I'm going) and slip it in. It'll never cost more'n a pen, permanently reuseable, and no waiting.

1. Would something like this make your route planning and group rides easier?

No-as on my group rides I just print 'em off the computer and hand out directions and phone numbers on the off chance someone gets separated from the group.

2. Would you be willing to pay $8 a decal for this functionality?

No-ten trips would cost more than the tankbag. Looks aren't that important.

3. What other information would be handy to have on the decal?

4. Would an additional map decal be useful as well even if there was an additional charge? (I can print full color images as well as just the text)

Sorry for being a downer.

[Artful]

Lol no worries, that's the type of feedback I would want anyway. For the folks that don't use a tankbag though I would see it as being useful.

[Raux]

how about a reusable with a waterproof pen

military has them.

[Artful]

Hmm... not sure I'd go about that... I have lots of laminate optiosn, I'm curious what kind of ink they're using the pens and what material would be impervious to weather but also clean off to reuse... I'll look into it.

[Raux]

http://www.riteintherain.com/Categories.aspx?Category=fbc3c15c-9c09-47cd-8175-79b14c0740d9

[Raux]

or try using this on one of your vinyls

http://www.monami.com/products/product.asp?iidx=38&depth1=Markers

[Artful]

Yeah, first thought was overhead pen. I thought they could be washed with water though... hey, I have one in my pen holder... let the R&D commence

[Raux]

Yeah, first thought was overhead pen. I thought they could be washed with water though... hey, I have one in my pen holder... let the R&D commence

you need an alcohol based pen they dont wash with water
just need to make sure the alcohol cleaner doesn't damage your material.