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Hattar Motorsports plastic tank coating

Started by slower than..., February 26, 2011, 05:55:02 PM

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ducatiz

#15
April 06, 2011, 07:26:55 AM
IF there were no ethanol in our gasoline, it wouldn't be an issue.  The nylon material used absorbs both the ethanol and water.   I have to assume they knew about the water absorption, or at least Acerbis knew as both are clearly stated on the materials sheets on the BASF website.  The ethanol is different as they and Ducati are Italian companies and probably tested using Italian gasoline= no ethanol.

Either way, any coating that adheres to nylon should work.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

desmoquattro

#16
April 06, 2011, 07:42:13 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on April 06, 2011, 07:26:55 AM
IF there were no ethanol in our gasoline, it wouldn't be an issue.  The nylon material used absorbs both the ethanol and water.   I have to assume they knew about the water absorption, or at least Acerbis knew as both are clearly stated on the materials sheets on the BASF website.  The ethanol is different as they and Ducati are Italian companies and probably tested using Italian gasoline= no ethanol.

Either way, any coating that adheres to nylon should work.

There's ethanol (and other stuff) in US gasoline. Ducati and others know that and knew it when they designed the tanks. But a plastic/nylon/flubber tank can't be repaired, and might result in more aftermarket sales for the manufacturer so their incentives are a bit warped. Again, the solution is an aluminum tank...it may not be as good for Ducati's bottom line, but it's the right engineering solution here. Hell, I'll even take one with that 1198SP racing stripe [thumbsup]
My Vices
'09 1198s,red, (Il Diavolo Rosso) 
'09 KTM 690 SMC (Thumpy)
'04 Yamaha FZ1, The Blue Cockroach
'01 900SS, custom yellow, (The Bumblebee)
'05 MS4R, blue

ducatiz

#17
April 06, 2011, 07:48:02 AM
Quote from: desmoquattro on April 06, 2011, 07:42:13 AM
There's ethanol (and other stuff) in US gasoline. Ducati and others know that and knew it when they designed the tanks. But a plastic/nylon/flubber tank can't be repaired, and might result in more aftermarket sales for the manufacturer so their incentives are a bit warped. Again, the solution is an aluminum tank...it may not be as good for Ducati's bottom line, but it's the right engineering solution here. Hell, I'll even take one with that 1198SP racing stripe [thumbsup]

i'm not sure i see your logic given they've replaced so many, most are out of warranty too.  someone is paying for those replaced tanks. 

that being said, i would like an Alu tank too, but it isn't going to happen.

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

desmoquattro

#18
April 06, 2011, 12:41:24 PM
Quote from: ducatiz on April 06, 2011, 07:48:02 AM
i'm not sure i see your logic given they've replaced so many, most are out of warranty too.  someone is paying for those replaced tanks. 

that being said, i would like an Alu tank too, but it isn't going to happen.

I think they went to the plastic tank thinking that it'd be resistant to minor spills. And the upside was there: fewer tanks that were actually damaged could be repaired, leading to aftermarket sales. But it backfired when the tanks started warping, people filed a class action suit, and regulatory bodies got involved. It's just sad that they're replacing the defective tanks with more of the same defective tanks.
My Vices
'09 1198s,red, (Il Diavolo Rosso) 
'09 KTM 690 SMC (Thumpy)
'04 Yamaha FZ1, The Blue Cockroach
'01 900SS, custom yellow, (The Bumblebee)
'05 MS4R, blue

ducatiz

#19
April 06, 2011, 02:04:47 PM
actually the manufacturing cost of a rotomold tank is cheaper.  That's the main reason. 
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

desmoquattro

#20
April 06, 2011, 03:33:56 PM
Quote from: ducatiz on April 06, 2011, 02:04:47 PM
actually the manufacturing cost of a rotomold tank is cheaper.  That's the main reason. 

I suspected that was part of it. Either way, they went for cheap/more sales and burned the public. And now they want to do the wrong thing all over again. It's just sad.
My Vices
'09 1198s,red, (Il Diavolo Rosso) 
'09 KTM 690 SMC (Thumpy)
'04 Yamaha FZ1, The Blue Cockroach
'01 900SS, custom yellow, (The Bumblebee)
'05 MS4R, blue

iRam

#21
July 12, 2011, 08:26:24 AM
Slower than,

Hows that 3m coating working for you? I saw your blog and it looks pretty solid. Plannin on having mine done in the colder months when my monster goes into hybernation. Just checkin if anyone else had experience with it other than you.
Ducati Monster 796
BMW R nineT

ducatiz

#22
July 20, 2011, 02:20:10 PM
Can someone get me a contact name at Hattar?

I have a 3M engineer who is willing to run some tanks for testing and he wanted to know which version of the ScotchKote they are using -- there are 4 or 5 of them.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Spidey

#23
July 20, 2011, 03:14:38 PM
PM Michael Moore.  He's buddies with everyone over there.  He likely put you in contact with Adeeb.
Occasionally AFM #702  My stuff:  The M1000SS, a mashed r6, Vino 125, the Blonde, some rugrats, yuppie cage, child molester van, bourbon.

nicholasv

#24
February 28, 2012, 08:44:21 AM
Did anyone figure out what they are using?

Is this something that we can do ourselves?

I just put in a request for a new tank, and we shall see.
But if I do get one, I would love to have this coating put on.

ducatiz

#25
February 28, 2012, 08:50:19 AM Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 08:52:17 AM by ducatiz
They don't do it in shop, they send the tank out and they are using the 3m ScotchKote.

They told me the place isn't even in California since Cali has banned the use of the coating due to VOC.

The coating probably works fine, the issue is prep. 

The settlement from Ducati showed a tank with the 3m coating peeling -- consistent with a coating applied over a dirty tank.

if you have someone else do your tank, I recommend you do the cleaning yourself -- drain, dry, rinse with solvent (dawn or something that can cut petroleum),rinse with water, dry, rinse repeat.... 

the more you rinse and dry, the better you will get adhesion
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
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