New to motorcycling and Monster

[mrpetebojangles]

Hey all,

I'm a 22 year old that's looking to get my first bike.  I've been interested in the idea for a number of years and just recently have been seriously researching and learning about motorcycles. It is definitely the looks of the naked ducati that really hooked me in, or else I might not of been interested in the sport at all. I plan on taking a Basic Motorcycle's Riding Course here shortly in the new week or two. I have a couple questions about the motorcycle and and would appreciate some insight. And no, I'm not simply soliciting a "GET IT!" respond but would appreciate any feedback greatly. Also any tips for a new rider would be awesome!

How is the bike for brand new beginners? I've read from a few sources saying that the bike is on the advanced-beginner side of things? Just to state, I am a very good vehicle driver, however how well that translates into being a good motorcyclist, I don't know. But I haven't had any accidents, speeding tickets etc, and I want to really learn how to ride this bike before I test really what it's capable of.

How is the bike for taller riders? I am rather tall at 6'7'' and I weigh 200 lbs. So I'm a rather tall, slender guy. Sitting on the bike in the showroom, I felt very comfortable and didn't necessarily feel cramped. On other that I've tested I certainly have. But obviously sitting in a show room floor and riding are two different things.

I'm currently looking at a 2009 new Pearl White Monster 696 and would like to know if this deal sounds like a good one. A dealership is offering, after financing of course, this bike for $8,650 out the door. That is after them "working with me." Is this a good deal? There was a red one which I also liked, but this white one they're offering the deal on due to the way the obtained it which was through an auction. Presumably from a bike shop that had gone out of business. The bike is brand new still, but I thought that was interesting because the same deal cannot be offered on the red Monster.

Thanks for any who take the time to read my post! 

[Dellikose]

Welcome to the board 

I was in a similar position that you are in...my first bike, not much riding experience, and about to take the MSF class.

I opted for a 1999 M900, since I just wanted something old and cheaper in case learning went bad on it. I've heard (on other boards) that this bike would be suicide for a new rider, blah, blah, blah. It's all about what you have sitting on your shoulders. Thankfully, I had an easy time learning the basics on it. The first few days were just practicing finding the friction zone with the clutch, then gradually working up to getting moving, shifting and stopping. It looks like the 696 has a slipper clutch, so it will be easier for you.

I'm 6'1", so not as tall as you, but tall and I do not have a problem with feeling cramped. You said that sitting on it feels fine for you, so that's definitely a plus. Maybe another basketballer can chime in for you. 

A quick search shows a MSRP of $8,775 so $8,650 is eh, but I don't know if there are any upgrades. It doesn't seem like Ducati really deals much on new bikes. Personally, I would go for the white anyways...just me.

Just let me say this... Riding a Ducati is different from most other bikes in the sense that the bike actually seems like more than just a bike. It's more about the experience than anything else.

Also, good job on taking the MSF. I really learned a lot from that class. 

[Slide Panda]

Welcome - seems like you've got quite a responsible point of view on this.

For historical perspective my first *real* bike was a Monster 620. I'm in your weight class - though 8" shorter. The 620 was a great beginner bike for me. The 696 is the updated version that's got a decent bit more power - though the ole 620 was no slouch. It had enough power to feel quick, especially to a new rider, but not so much brute power that it can run away easily like some of the big boys if you get ham handed.

I picked that 620 up used - rode it a lot and sold it a year later for basically what I paid. I got a years ride without much cost beyond gas and oil. No depreciation when I rolled it off the lot etc.

Where I'm going with this is to encourage you to look at the used market. Like most folks after a year or two you'll probably be looking for something more. Usually the bigger engined bikes also come with better suspensions and other desirable farkles.

You can save yourself a good bit of cash that way. And in the event of a drop or other minor mishap you won't feel so bad. While getting something new new is nice (ahhh the new bike smell) there's a greater cost.

Oh and insurance won't be so bad for a 620/695 as the shiny new 696... another cost

A comparable bike that is easy to get, sell and sell off is the SV650. While they are no duc they are a capable beginners bike - tough as hell and cheap as chips to fix up

Other budget items to consider - gear. There's plenty of good, lower cost gear available these days - but you still will be spending several hundred bucks to get a Helmet, Jacket, gloves etc etc

If you do opt for the 696 route - talk to the shop about swapping the body panels if you want the red. The painted sections are just bolt on parts these days.

Take a look around- there's been several discussion on the site like yours - new rider/first bike ones.

And there's plenty of good info regarding gear too.


Oh BTW, where do you hail from? We've got members all over the US. Probably someone local to you

[ducatiz]

Bear in mind these bikes were designed by and for guys who are about 5'8 and 150lbs.  You will definitely need to modify the bars and pegs to keep you at the right angles.

This will give you an idea:

http://cycle-ergo.com/

[mrpetebojangles]

Thanks for all the quick replies!

I hail from good ol' Reno, Nevada. Our winters can start as early as mid-October so I'm hoping to get into something so I can get a bit of practice before the snow starts. I understood that the monster 696 was probably made for a smaller gentleman, but I read a review from a guy that was 6'4'' and he said he felt fine on the bike. Again I feel pretty good on the bike, but then again I haven't actually ridden it. But due to my lack of any driving experience I can't test-drive the bike.

Before I started actually looking for a bike, I was certain I didn't want anything too powerful or twitchy in terms of handling and braking which I've read the Monster is nice and the power delivery is fairly smooth and confidence inducing. I also didn't want a bike that I would want to quickly upgrade, but it seems like used beginner-esque bikes retain resell value fairly well. Lastly, I understand that every bike has a unique feel and character to it, and I wanted to learn and become one with the bike, as I learned myself how to really ride it.

In terms of learning to ride, what are the common things newbies such as myself have trouble with? Maybe that is way too broad of a question and varies from person to person. No matter where I look, I keep finding that YOU WILL CRASH YOUR BIKE!!!! This is a bit unsettling and I do plan on getting some good gear that I plan on using every time I ride. I already have a pair of boots and gloves for the Motorcycle Course and will be looking at a jacket/helmet soon. I don't want to invest too heavily in gear until I'm certain of the bike that I'm getting. But why do noobs such as myself crash? What steps can I take to prevent an accident? As i've mentioned to others around me that I might be getting a bike, it seems that about 50% of people or so make sure to mention the close friends/acquaintances/guy they once talked to for 10 min, around them that have gotten seriously injured or died, as a way I'm assuming to discourage me away from a bike. I feel as if this isn't as big an issue as people make it out to be, because almost everyone knows someone who's died/been injured in a car accident as well. Oddly enough my mom is actually all for me getting a bike.She rides horses which can be equally dangerous without the traffic of course. The one thing that is scary for me, isn't my ability to ride the machine, but my inability to control the actions/ineptitude of those around me. If I crash, then so be it, I made a mistake. But the thought of getting t-boned by a guy that didn't see me through an intersection, someone coming into my lane, or someone pulling out in front of me at an intersection sounds terrifying. I drive my car right now as if everyone is drunk (I do live in Reno), and I practice very save driving habits, 2 seconds rule etc. I hope this will translate well over into a Bike, and I'm not getting a bike to be a showboat, but a fun way to commute to work, and a fun way to drive about in the city/rural areas. The only time I was involved in an accident is when I was waiting at a light in my older Jeep, and was rear ended by a guy who I guess just wasn't paying attention. I got a bit of minor whiplash and my rear bumper was cracked but otherwise I was ok. Had I been on a bike... Is this something a motorcyclist just lives with? You can be the most responsive, hyper-focused driver in the world I feel, but all of that can change with some idiot on the road in a matter of seconds.

All in all it seems like an amazing way to see the world and I would be more of a participant on the roads we drive on vs. an observer in a steel/glass cage. I'm so excited about this bike and honestly it has occupied my brain the past months or so and I've been in to look at the bike a good 5 or so times. Also I forgot to mention. The price that is being offered to me is $8,650 and thats out the door, after tax. Sound reasonable? The other reason I wanted a newer bike, is I like the idea of the newer technology being available to me. It might make the learning a little easier with an easy clutch, controllable power and good but not too heavily grippy brakes?

This is a used monster I've been checking out as well. http://reno.craigslist.org/mcy/2527059705.html Decisions, decisions! If there are any taller riders, I would love to hear any feedback! I can't find anything on the topic other than a few reviews. The salesman at the dealership said it's just something I'd have to deal with and get used to. Being tall can really suck sometimes!  thanks again for the replies and I look forward to reading some more to appease my unquenchable appetite for this new world I'm about to venture into.

[Slide Panda]

Re: Technology. The 696 doesn't have much of the new tech on it. Yes the engine is a bit smoother and more efficient than prior generations - but it's nothing OMG huge. The 696 does have better brakes than the 'baby' monsters from 2005 until the 696 appeared - but even the 'lesser' brakes still performed well. Yeah they were not really up to abuse at a track, but for moderate+ sporting road rides the were just fine.

The clutch on the 696 won't really be anything different from the ATPC clutch available on the 620, 295 and S2R800

The 696 doesn't have any of the stuff like ABS and Traction Control.

Re: Prices. I'm not a good resource for that on the new bikes.. been happy with my 900 for a while now. But I have been helping a coworker hunt down a S2R800 or 1000, so I've got some perspective there. That CL ad, the 695, is priced very high. In the DC area there's an S2R800 with +/- $700 in aftermarkets on it for $4000 and a bone stock S2R1000 with tip over damage for less than that 695. From what Iv'e seen it should be down at or below $4000 especially for a bine stock bike. Another thing to note is that that 695 isn't far from a service interval that will cost you a few hundred dollars - unless you're feeling like working out your DIY muscles.

Re: Crashing. That's a big topic and should probably get it's own thread - but there's probably already one
I suggest you skim through the Riding section an see if you can spot something to answer your questions or piggy back on to
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?www;board=8

Besides the course you're taking I suggest you hit the books. My two favorites are
Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well
http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Motorcycling-Ultimate-Guide-Riding/dp/B0058M64WI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313154287&sr=8-1

Total Control: High Performance Street Riding Techniques
http://www.amazon.com/Total-Control-Performance-Street-Techniques/dp/0760314039/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1313154318&sr=1-1

Start with Proficient Motorcycling.

I won't go into great detail (that's were a riding thread comes in) but I'll hit some of your questions.

yes- ride like you're invisible to cars. On my ride to work yesterday I had two cars turn left in front of me - both in situations where they had no right of way. The 2nd rolled through a stop that every one does in my hood and flattened the turn cutting it close enough I lifted the rear wheel off the ground on the brakes. The most common 2 vehicle accident for a moto is when a car turns left in front of it. So yes - there's more to watch out from cars.

The 1-2 year period. You'll see a graph in your class that shows the chance of having an accident during a given year of your riding career. There's a huge spike around the 1-2 year period. Folks have ridden for a year, take off for the winter and get back on the next spring. They have that years experience to give them confidence, but not a larger experience base to protect them. The result it that a lot of newer riders get over confident in that period and have a crash. A lot, but not all. So sound like you've got a solid head on your shoulders and that does A LOT to prevent crashes. Smarts, a touch of humility (don't try to place keep up with faster folks) and working on your skills will do a lot to prevent you being an accident stat.

That's some of it - but not all. Like i said take a look over the riding section. The '"I Saved It!" Analysis - Learning from our successes' (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=100.0 ) thread is probably a great place to start and will probably spawn a number of questions in your head. If you do have questions - feel free to ask, there's really no dumb questions. We all started off not knowing anything on this

[Dellikose]

yes- ride like you're invisible to cars. On my ride to work yesterday I had two cars turn left in front of me - both in situations where they had no right of way. The 2nd rolled through a stop that every one does in my hood and flattened the turn cutting it close enough I lifted the rear wheel off the ground on the brakes. The most common 2 vehicle accident for a moto is when a car turns left in front of it. So yes - there's more to watch out from cars.

I just want to reiterate this.

I was down at a local hardware store around 11am, and it was very busy. I was heading out of the store, down a secondary road to the main road. There was a drive on the secondary road to a Burger King, with an old guy coming out. He made eye contact with me and then proceeded to turn left in front of me. Luckily, I was only going about 15 MPH, and was covering the brake since it was very busy...just being cautious. Grabbed the brake and came to a stop and he also jabbed the brakes and stopped in the middle of my lane. I just shook my head and gave him "the point". 

I could see him cursing me as I drove off...that's what we have to deal with!

[patrick696]

Hi,
I am no expert on these things, but $8,650 sounds a little high for a 2009. You would think being a couple model years old, that they would deal a little bit to get it out the door.

I bought my first "real bike" last summer - a '10 red 696+ (included ABS and the little fairing above the headlight), zero miles on it for $9,850. Being a recently new model when I bought it (it had been on the showroom floor for 6 mos), the dealer did not negotiate much on price at all.

Anyway, I am 5'7"/180 lbs and feel very comfortable on it. I love the damn thing. I put 7,000 miles on it so far. I have put bar risers and a DP Comfort seat on it to add comfort.

Good luck with your decision.

Patrick

[mrpetebojangles]

Thanks a lot for all of the replies. Thanks for the helpful links Panda! I'm so excited about this bike and I love the fact that there is this great community here! Just curious, in the first weeks of me owning the bike, what kind of skills should I be focusing on. Should I find a bike empty parking lot and practice tight turns, breaking quickly etc? Are there sort of drills I should run for myself? My work is being a pain in getting time off, so I won't be able to get my Basic motorcycle course for another 2 weeks!  Then I'll hopefully be getting this bike near the end of the month or soon after. I'll make sure to take pics when I do

[Slide Panda]

I'll point you back at proficient motorcycling read that in those weeks.

As far as what you can do on bike.
- Plot a couple early morning, short trips. Rise early, and get back early. It minimizes the number of cars you'll have to deal with.
- Venturing to a parking lot is a good idea. Though don't focus on some like tight turns. not at first. Use it as a safe area to work on your skills. Just basics at first, then work from there. One good thing to practice in a place like a lot is stopping as quickly as possible/panic stop. It's a drill you'll do in the MSF class (a bit) but it's good to work on more. With the MSF you'll get a number of drills that are easy to replicate in a lot.

Regarding tight turns - do you mean tight turns at speed? Or slow speed work? Motorcycles will behave very differently depending on their speed. Above a certain speed (changes a bit) forces take over that require you to counter steer (turn front wheel right, bike goes left) - below that threshold you steer normally.
Now you really make it hard on you - at the low speeds you can maneuver the bike at very low speeds (walking or less) with a combination of body inputs (balance and body position), throttle and clutch management and good bit of rear brake use (NOT the front). Obviously this involves both hands and 1 foot in action at the same as turning - can bit a bit much for a beginner, or even not beginners. But, one way to practice those low speed control skills is to try to ride a straight(ish) line as slowly as possible. Going straight takes out the dynamic of a turn and the extra variables of it. If you want i can go into the chassis dynamics of what's going on... but I figure that's a bit much for now.

- Riding a bike is a complex task, so take it easy at first. Build up your skills.

[mrpetebojangles]

Cool, I just ordered the book . At lower speeds is it much more difficult to control the bike through slow turns etc just due to the fact that you have less momentum and the bike's weight is harder to control? Ehh, I'll just take the class!!!!

[Slide Panda]

It's not harder. Just different. And I'm talking slow slow.

A lot of it's actually the dynamics of the chassis, suspension and poser from the engine. Put power to the wheel and it tightens the chain, this causes tension through the suspension and can help you control the bike at the low speeds. Of course to keep the bike moving slowly one must modulate the power and you can add resistance via the rear brake. So you, all at the same time, are modulating the throttle, clutch and rear brake pressure. So that can make it a bit tougher for a new rider.

Also it can be a confidence issue. As keeping the bike compliant with what you want is more finesse at these super slow speeds it can make folks nervous.

[mrpetebojangles]

Thanks for all the great info Panda! I could read more and more from you ALL DAY, err day. Are there any recommended mods for a taller guy like myself? I've heard that some people install longer foot pegs? The bike stock should be alright to learn on and I can make adjustments as I determine a necessity for those upgrades? I'm not a very hands on type, so maybe it's better I don't mess with anything. How long would you say does it take the average new rider to start feeling comfortable on a bike? Winters in Reno can start pretty early, so I'm hoping to at least get a few months of some good practice in, garage park the bike for the winter and hit spring/summer next year in full force. If the bike feels comfortable to sit on in the show room, does that translate over much to actually riding the bike? It does feel very comfortable which is one of the reasons I was originally attracted to it. I just hope I don't get something that ends up not working for me at all. I don't think this will be the case, or at least I hope not.

[Slide Panda]

Being only a bit above average height I'm not really tuned into what folks have done. But seats are something to look at. I'm not sure on the 696, but I know the 620 and 695 seats had a bit less foam to them which reduced the seat height. If that's the case with the 696 then a seat from a 796 or 1100 should raise you up a bit, giving you some more room. And a seat swap is about as non-hands-on as one can get.

There was a decent market of folks looking for and selling the taller/shorter seats of the previous gen monsters to suit their needs.

Seeing as it's your first bike, and I'd say this with any bike, get a feel for it before making lots of ergo changes. With bikes a change in the riders position can make a significant change to how the bike responds. Remember, at your/my size we make up 1/3rd of the total mass of the bike and rider combo.

Also changing stuff about can have other consequences. For example, lower pegs. Though it varies, on most sporting bikes the pegs are the first hard part to touch down at high lean angles. Lower the pegs and you're reducing the available angle before they contact the pavement. Not saying that lower pegs would be a bad idea - just food for thought.

I'd recommend you pose your question in the Accessories & Mods section. There are a few folks on here who are as or near to as tall as you and may have some good insight. Like I mentioned, I'm only 5' 11" so I'm not faced with the problems you are.

So here's something to ponder as well - what about a motard? Maybe not even one of the Ducati ones. There's several manufacturers. Motards are very dirty-bikey in their configuration and the riders posture. Tall seats and tall ride allow for more vertical space between the seat and the pegs. The posture is usually more upright which would allow someone with long arms more room.
- And motards are stupid fun.

[mrpetebojangles]

I was looking at a few Motards, and I'm pretty set on a street bike. I'll just have to get used to the bike. Maybe on long trips I might wanna look at some mods, but this bike will primarily be used on my 15 min commute to work.