696 = "New Coke" Current Monster = "Coke Classic"

[DRKWNG]

Can anyone recognize this movie quote?

"Oh, actually all champagne is French, it's named after the region. Otherwise it's sparkling white wine. Americans of course don't recognize the convention, so it becomes that thing of calling all of their sparkling white "champagne", even though by definition they're not."
"Ah yes, it's a lot like 'Star Trek: The Next Generation'. In many ways it's superior but will never be as recognized as the original."

No, but I agree with it.

[Zee]

The problem with the original coke and coke classic (post new Coke) was that it wasn't the same recipe.  They changed the real sugar for high fructose corn syrup as the sweetener.  But since everyone got a taste of new coke they didn't notice the difference on the "classic".  It saved Coca-Cola a TON of money going with corn, and few ever knew the difference because of the "new coke" palate cleanser.

Get Mexican Coke

I think Aussie Coke still uses real sugar. will have to check one of these days.

Z...

[sbrguy]

I was going to make this same analogy in my poll thread, so I think it is apt.  Another one I thought about about was the mid-80s Porsches like the 924, where they decided to be a bit more populist, and in the process spread the badge thinner.  You can't argue with success, which is why the Porsche example is probably not as good as the Coke one.
The argument I made from day one is that the refresh was a change that nobody asked for.  And by nobody, I mean the people already riding or planning to ride a monster in its 695/SNR form.  I have never heard a fan say "the monster is a stupendous bike.  Now, if only they took away some of the things I really love about it..."  So, the only thing that makes sense is that despite the Monster's sales numbers and loyal ridership, they were going to reach out to other consumers.  While I don't have much of an emotional investment in it, I understand how this might be percieved as a Ducati turning away (I wouldn't say turning their back) on the consumers that made them successful.  Some people, (people named The Ron) take this as some kind of personal insult.  I know where they are coming from, but I don't necessarily share the outrage.
I still think the old bike with the new bits would have sold like gangbusters.  Which is why I could see and live with these two bikes co-existing in their own development paths.  I do think they should call the new Monster something else, though.

well your argument that "nobody asked for the change" is your opinion on that matter, sure you can ask a lot of people and they will say "keep it the same" about anything the classic "if it ain't broke don't fix it" but you know like anything else things are slowly changed or evolved over time if for no other reason to get you to buy a new "thing" .

otherwise how can you explain we are not still driving around in cars that look like cars from the 80s? 

i see what ducati is doign with the new monster, like all radical changes a lot of people may not agree with it at first but they are giving it a shot for a while. they may change things back somewhat but i doubt it.  the "monster" design is a bit dated, use any other nice word you want "classic, timeless" etc but in auto or bike terms the 695 design and look is essentially a 10 year old design at the least, ancient by motorcycle or car standards and time for a refresh, you could say the s2r line and such was the "refresh", but this design was never put to the "base" model, and the 696 is the "refresh".

whining about how you don't like the 696 is not going to change things, it either will sell or it won't if they lose a lot of sales guess what they will change it again.

[Delmar]

Get Mexican Coke

Yeah, that´s the evil plan to conquer the world!  Have everyone drink mexican coke???!!!   

[il d00d]

well your argument that "nobody asked for the change" is your opinion on that matter, sure you can ask a lot of people and they will say "keep it the same" about anything the classic "if it ain't broke don't fix it" but you know like anything else things are slowly changed or evolved over time if for no other reason to get you to buy a new "thing" .

otherwise how can you explain we are not still driving around in cars that look like cars from the 80s? 

whining about how you don't like the 696 is not going to change things, it either will sell or it won't if they lose a lot of sales guess what they will change it again.

OK, if that is the case, my argument, that no current owners were clamoring for radical changes to the monster, is a bit more qualifiable than yours, which is that it was "dated".  You can search TOB for threads entitled "changes you would make to your monster" and I don't think you will see any that say, change the trellis frame, add air intakes to the tank.  You will see swingarm/SSS, updated engine or suspension parts.  So, to put a finer point on it, there was no apparent demand for modernization within the monster-riding community aside from non-cosmetic stuff.  
Not that I am endorsing this, but HD would be a good example of a successful, long-term if-it-ain't-broke development plan - keeping something the same and remaining successful is not unprecendented.  (Here's the part where I ask you why hundreds of thousands of middle-aged men are riding around on bikes designed in the 50s   )
Again, I am not suggesting that Ducati should have taken the same path.

Re: whining,  you need to read my post more carefully.

[timmer357]

Sorry to be like an a-hole, but this analogy is pretty lame and this topic has been beat as much as it possibly could.  How much longer until you guys decide the dead 696 horse is no longer a fun one to beat?

[onederer]

Sorry to be like an a-hole, but this analogy is pretty lame and this topic has been beat as much as it possibly could.  How much longer until you guys decide the dead 696 horse is no longer a fun one to beat?

i think it will be about the same time they stop going on about, harley riders not waving to them, riders of japanese made motorcycles ALL being squids, and the fact that ducati has more "soul" than anything on two wheels....oh and that a dry clutch makes it a ducati.

which is to say....never. and that makes the baby jesus (or baby deity of your choice) cry.

[Binary]

Sorry to be like an a-hole, but this analogy is pretty lame and this topic has been beat as much as it possibly could.  How much longer until you guys decide the dead 696 horse is no longer a fun one to beat?

+1

No one is forcing you to buy a M696. Ducati is still making the M695. Everyone has options; why piss on the 696?

[Bill in OKC]

You are correct sir!!

Waynes World... right?

[MendoDave]

What I like about the 696 is that it makes my 01 750 a classic!

I say bring on the changes, and I'll hang on to my old monster, even if I get a new monster.

[Old-Duckman]

696 guys (and gals) I really didn't do my original post to 'dis' the 696...I rather like it but for a couple areas (headlight and stock cans). It is just that as I was reading other 696 threads, the Coke thing did come to mind. So I thought I'd post and see what others thought.....Which I did/have.

Yes, they are both current Monsters but I think most everyone understood the intent of my subject line. Ducati has some history of running old and new models together for a year or so. I think it is more than just a trial balloon, a new model is just way too expensive to develop and take to market...and for a small manufacturer such as Ducati, it can't be just done on a whim. Honda can put out a failed model and just absorb it and move on. Not so easy with Ducati I would think.

I somewhat agree that it may have been better accepted if it would have been released under another name. If the sales figures are as good as some say for the 696-ish Monster than I fear our beloved "Classic" Monster is soon be gone from the product offering...probably till the parts bins are empty.

Frankly I got sick of reading in MC mags how "dated" the Monster is...Like somone else mentioned...What about Harleys. Why don't you ever read the same thing stated about Harleys in MC mags?

Oh well...A well kept "Classic" Monster can only go up in value if they are no longer available and still desired by the public...Though there are a ton of them around due to their long production life so "classic" resale prices are still probably pretty far off for the classic Monster.

[sbrguy]

Frankly I got sick of reading in MC mags how "dated" the Monster is...Like somone else mentioned...What about Harleys. Why don't you ever read the same thing stated about Harleys in MC mags?

[/quote]

my guess is nobody says HD is "dated" bc HD whole BRAND is built off of the "outlaw biker" image of the marlon brando and biker gangs image.  So their bikes in a sense have to be "dated" because its what makes their brand "their brand" if you update it too much nobody will buy them.

i would say that is why HD is going back to the things like the cross bones and the all blacked out springer bikes and such, bc they know that is what sells for them, they tried to go modern with the v-rod and if i'm not mistaken it doesn't sell as well as some of their othr bikes.

Ducati i say cna't really do that as much, ducati though built on a racing heritage and such still likes to say its a "racing brand" even though most of the bikes are not superbikes they are in a way trying to say they are modern more or less.

[Popeye the Sailor]

OK, if that is the case, my argument, that no current owners were clamoring for radical changes to the monster, is a bit more qualifiable than yours, which is that it was "dated".  You can search TOB for threads entitled "changes you would make to your monster" and I don't think you will see any that say, change the trellis frame, add air intakes to the tank.  You will see swingarm/SSS, updated engine or suspension parts.  So, to put a finer point on it, there was no apparent demand for modernization within the monster-riding community aside from non-cosmetic stuff. 

Why would they care what the *current* owners want. They already have a Ducati, and are less likely to buy a newer, slightly better version of a bike they already own, especially one that's probably been modified at great time and expense. Most monster owners wouldn't buy a second-they'd get a hyper, or an 848, or who knows what. It's silly to cater to a market that probably isn't buying. Ducati's move makes sense.

[PizzaMonster]

The problem with the original coke and coke classic (post new Coke) was that it wasn't the same recipe.  They changed the real sugar for high fructose corn syrup as the sweetener.  But since everyone got a taste of new coke they didn't notice the difference on the "classic".  It saved Coca-Cola a TON of money going with corn, and few ever knew the difference because of the "new coke" palate cleanser.

So to follow this analogy through......

In Step 1 of the plan Ducati builds the 696 (New Coke) knowing it is a piece of crap and the current customers wouldn't like it.  

In Step 2 the S2R Monsters are discontinued and the execs in Bologna wait for the hue & cry from the Ducati faithful.

Then Step 3 will then have Ducati to reintroduce the old Monster (Coke Classic) but having substituted cheaper components.               Hmmmmmmm.........

Of course....I only follow this analogy through to it's logical conclusion purely for entertainment purposes   .

Really folks.  Enough of this being polite.  I don't really like the 696.  Not that it's a bad bike...just not my thing.  If any of us here felt it was the first of a distinct new line within Ducati I don't think there would be any of this animosity.  I think it would be completely welcomed.  But we are all pretty sure that based on Ducati's stated intention to shrink their product line our "old" Monster is being put out to pasture before many of us consider it's time has passed.  

I for one am pissed off with this state of affairs.  The whole tone of the conversation now seems to have degenerated to an "it's us against them" scenario.  If the young squids around here feel that they have "won" something by defeating the lovers of the old Monster...then they can go to Hell.  I'll continue to treat the 696 as the bastard child of the Ducati family and enjoy my S2R and any older M-series Monster that happens to come along.

[wbeck257]

Not going to happen... Ducati didn't reintroduce the 916 when the 999 came out.

Just get over it -- the old monster is d, o, n, e, done.
Just a matter of time before Ducati starts showing off the new style large monsters.