Recurring ignition coils error code P0351 on both coils/circuits (S2R1K)

[czen]

NOTE: I had forgotten that I had replaced the Crank Position Sensor with a brand new one ... I think this step definitely helped! These sensors do, apparently, fail over time ... not often, but it does happen. My bike ran much better after I did that.

[axle167]

Thank you for your input!

A bit about my bike. 52,000kms or 30,000 miles with full term and open air box. These were there when I bought the bike 7 years ago.

I’ve changed the stator and upgraded to a shindgen mosfet reg rec. replaced the sprag clutch, shifter spring. These were done a few seasons ago.

Belts and valves were done at 48,000kms a couple seasons ago, I probably did a TB sync at that time.

This season i’ve only done the fork seals and replace rear signals with factory ones. Gonna double check the connections!!!  Batt is a couple years old, but it tested good at a batt shop when I wanted to replace it.  And now it has new coils. I’m gonna bring up your list with the tech.

The bike is parked underground and I don’t ride in rain. I don’t wash my bike much and even when I do i use little water. I do notice the last couple seasons the needles don’t always do a full sweep with the key to on. Does that mean anything??

[axle167]

Just came back from the tech and here's what was done.

replaced coil and the coil error code still came up.

replaced ecu with a "virgin" ecu and a three more codes came up in addition to the coil codes.  These were TPS, air temp sensor, atmos pressure sensor.  bike ran noticeably crappier and I suspect it's because the ecu is not tune to exhaust and open box.

revert back to my old dp ecu and now error codes are back down to the coils again.  bike ran rich, but noticeably better than with the *virgin* ecu.

bike starts fine and ran with a charm  

is this just a witch hunt?

[Speeddog]

In ~ 8 years, I've seen exactly one instance of a correct error code from a Ducati Diagnostic device.

It correctly identified a bad fuel injector circuit on an ECU on a 748.
Really not *that* helpful, as the bike wouldn't run on that cylinder, and I could see that the injector wasn't squirting fuel.

I've seen numerous error codes thrown on coils, always on bikes that run fine.

[czen]

"... is this just a witch hunt? .."


Yeah, electrical issues can be extremely frustrating! Especially if there is more than one issue at play, it gets very hard to nail down the exact cause or causes of your issues.

I'm sure you've already heard of this, but the general rule is to start from checking for big, most obvious, most common (i.e., "simplest") potential problems and then moving on to more unusual, more exotic, rarer issues (hence, more "complicated").

Have you had any luck since your last post? Any of my experiences helpful?

About the rich running problem: have you been able to actually look at the respective maps on the old versus the "virgin" ECU? You can use Guzzidiag together with TunerPro to do that (along with other functions, like resetting the TPS, which is quite important to do every time you fiddle with stuff, especially fuelling related.)

More info here, in case you don't know already: https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=96957.0

Having a gas analyzer can also be a helpful tool, especially if you're doing stuff like balancing/synching the throttle bodies.

Anyway, best of luck again! And don't worry, it will eventually work out.

PS - By the way, just in case, have you done some basic tests, like a cylinder compression test? Doesn't sound like it is your problem, but never hurts to check.

[czen]

In ~ 8 years, I've seen exactly one instance of a correct error code from a Ducati Diagnostic device.

It correctly identified a bad fuel injector circuit on an ECU on a 748.
Really not *that* helpful, as the bike wouldn't run on that cylinder, and I could see that the injector wasn't squirting fuel.

I've seen numerous error codes thrown on coils, always on bikes that run fine.

Interesting. Any thoughts/ideas/theories as to why this would be happening? Seems rather frustrating that Ducati electrics and ECUs (or whatever
related areas that would cause excessive or inaccurate or irrelevant error codes) would be quite that finicky.

[czen]

Hi - Sorry I sent this via PM already, but just thought I'd post here as well, just in case it is useful to anyone:

By the way, what did you mean when you said: "I do notice the last couple seasons the needles don’t always do a full sweep with the key to on. Does that mean anything??" ... What exactly happens?

Also, do you have the cable and the software (Guzzidiag and TunerPro) to be able to read your ECU map and do other functions? If so, I'd be interested to see what the DP map looks like, if you are able to send it to me.

In case you're not familiar with all this stuff, you can look at that link for the tutorial on how to use Guzzidiag that I posted. Also, you can get the correct cable to hook up the ECU from Lonelec. This is the kit you would need ... there are other places you can find the cables, but this is guaranteed to work:

https://www.lonelec.co.uk/Motorbike-OBD-Diagnostic-Cables/Guzzidiag-Melcodiag-Ducatidiag-Hardware/Guzzidiag-Melcodiag-3pin-Interface-Cable   

[Speeddog]

Interesting. Any thoughts/ideas/theories as to why this would be happening? Seems rather frustrating that Ducati electrics and ECUs (or whatever
related areas that would cause excessive or inaccurate or irrelevant error codes) would be quite that finicky.

No idea.

[axle167]

Sorry, haven't had time to post for a while, life's other commitments.....

A big thank you to czen for all the information you've provided.  I will definitely check the diag tools in your link and the fuel mapping.

to repond to this from czen:
By the way, what did you mean when you said: "I do notice the last couple seasons the needles don’t always do a full sweep with the key to on. Does that mean anything??" ... What exactly happens?
The needle would sweep half way... goes back to zero and then do a full sweep the second time around.  Not sure what that means tho.


An update of what has happened.  Pick up the bike from the 1st tech and rode home.  Everything was fine for 20 mins and then felt the hesitation and the surge and bike finally died on the road.  Tried to restart and hear the relay click - feels exactly like a dead batt.  Toke the battery home for some tender charging and it took the charger overnight to give me the green light.  Installed the charged battery and bike starts.  Obviously the bike is not charging, so I rode it to another tech that was close by and he confirmed the stator was shot.  The stator was replaced 3 years ago and the reg/rec was replaced with a shindogen mosfet a couple years back.

The 2nd tech commented that if there's not enough power to the ecu, it will throw random codes.  I've ordered a new stator from electrosport for install and I've asked the 2nd tech to check for error codes after the install to see if any codes are still there.  Will find out in a week.

I'm not sure if the stator was the cause or if it was a symptom of my electrical issue, but my fingers are crossed for all's well with just the stator.  I don't know if the first tech check the charging system or not, but they are a reputable shop and the tech is well known for ducati's in the region.

[Howie]

On any vehicle  with  OBD a weak charging system can throw "false" trouble codes.  Not really false, the incedents did occur, but due to undercharging, not the component.