Triumph Bonnie?

[Barney]

Hey guys,

First, I signed up for triumphrat.net, but they have a fairly lengthy and restrictive introductory period so while i'm sure they're a great group of guys, i don't think ill be able to get any help there tonight.

I just had a look at a VERY reasonably (low for a reason) priced bonnie in town, and wanted to see if anyone is familiar enough with them to know what's up with it - I didn't get a good feeling about the thing, but it's a '12 with 5k miles on the clock, and can be had for $3800 if I act quickly - however - it's exhibiting very poor throttle response,  has an intermittent CEL, and the oil pressure light is acting kind of wonky - it would flash at me in between gears or if I let off the throttle.  If it just needs a little love it could be a good deal, but I'm not trying to go broke on a bargain...anyway - is anyone here familiar enough with them to be able to determine from my brief interaction with the bike what the risk of potentially expensive repairs being necessary may be?

also, mods, if this is the wrong spot to post this, feel free to move/delete as necessary

[koko64]

You should hear it start. If the starter clutch/sprague makes noise dont touch it. I have seen the cheap sprague bearings they use. Instead of slipping they can disintegrate.

[Barney]

Started it up a couple of times, and I don't recall any particularly disturbing sounds - what's the sound you would be looking for? 

[Speeddog]

~~~SNIP~~~

and the oil pressure light is acting kind of wonky - it would flash at me in between gears or if I let off the throttle. 

~~~SNIP~~~

I know next to nothing about Triumph Bonnevilles, but I'd consider that a huge red flag.

[Howie]

Do not buy the bike unless the oil pressure is checked with a mechanical gauge and the running problem is diagnosed. 

[koko64]

Yep.

[Curmudgeon]

- it's exhibiting very poor throttle response,  has an intermittent CEL, and the oil pressure light is acting kind of wonky - it would flash at me in between gears or if I let off the throttle.

A MIL light on that bike isn't intermittent. It's got some sort of wiring issue. Has aftermarket lighting?  If the MIL is flashing on and off, the oil pressure light means nothing either.

Stupid some of the mods ignorant people do to these bikes and then moan. That list is nothing like this forum, however, once you know who is who, there are a few electronics and wiring gurus who know more than I'd ever need. Pity you can't post.

If the deal becomes critical, I'll post it for you. Bit slow on the weekend of course.

More info on mods before guessing about the throttle response. '12 is CanBus but simple things can cause poor response, even bad gas.

[Barney]

So, against my better judgement, I picked the thing up this morning.  The price was too good to pass up.  The thing has definitely been bastardized, but I actually don't care - it should be a fun/low cost project to get sorted and I can do things with it I wouldn't consider on the monster.

I think I found at least part of the source of the throttle/running issues - the manifold boot between the left side "carbs" (it has fake carbs as well as a fast idle switch that looks like a choke and an idle adjuster knob) and the manifold itself has a crack in it, and from what I read on the triumph forum these things REALLY don't take well to vacuum leaks. they really mess up fueling, causing the bike to run very rich and can contribute to all of the symptoms I'm seeing - so there's that. I'm going to replace the boot and plug and disconnect the battery for a while to reset the computer and see if runs any better.

As far as the oil pressure light goes, it's not my biggest concern at the moment - I can see that it's filled to the proper level via the sight glass, and the oil lines/cooler/etc got warm so I can be fairly confident that oil is at least circulating. I can also see the level drop significantly in the viewer when the bike is started. I took it for a quick lap around the block and it seems to flicker more due to bumps and whatnot than anything else, and also the speedo stopped working, so there's obviously a wiring issue somewhere. 

we'll see how it goes, but it could be a fun little old man bike to kick around for the rest of the summer then maybe sell to someone looking for their first bike.

[Curmudgeon]

Disconnecting the battery will not reset the ECU. It's dumb.  If you have a steady MIL, only a computer reset or three drive/heat cycles of riding with the fault removed will cancel it. Figure out the loose connection.

Sure, the leaky boot will create havoc as will any leak around the thin tubes off the throttle bodies which lead to the MAP sensors!

As you are in NJ, any parts you need order from Hermy's. They are great people! http://www.triumphestore.com/

Pix or it didn't happen. 

[koko64]

Glad its nothing critical and it was a cheap pick up.

[Barney]

Disconnecting the battery will not reset the ECU. It's dumb.   If you have a steady MIL, only a computer reset or three drive/heat cycles of riding with the fault removed will cancel it. Figure out the loose connection.

Sure, the leaky boot will create havoc as will any leak around the thin tubes off the throttle bodies which lead to the MAP sensors!

As you are in NJ, any parts you need order from Hermy's. They are great people! http://www.triumphestore.com/

Pix or it didn't happen.  

I read about the battery thing after I disconnected it so when I stopped by the local auto parts store today to pick up a couple of plugs and found a cheap obdII code reader, I picked it up - plugged that bad boy in when I got home and pulled 2 codes - P1108 - which according to the triumph forum is Ambient air pressure sensor circuit high voltage - haven't looked into it too much, but I'm sure I can sort it.

the second is p0500 - which apparently informs me that my speedo is not working.  thanks. I couldn't figure that one out without the idiot light.  

anyway - i also picked up some silicone sealant to see if i can mend that boot temporarily, so its out to the garage with the pup dog to tinker.   hold tight for some pictures  

also, thanks for that link - i'll definitely be checking them out.


looks like they're in Allentown - I may have to take a ride out there at some point to look around!

[Curmudgeon]

So I stopped by the local auto parts store today to pick up a couple of plugs, and found a cheap obdII code reader - plugged that bad boy in when I got home and pulled 2 codes - P1108 - which according to the triumph forum is Ambient air pressure sensor circuit high voltage - haven't looked into it too much, but I'm sure I can sort it.

the second is p0500 - which apparently informs me that my speedo is not working.  thanks. I couldn't figure that one out without the idiot light.  

anyway - i also picked up some silicone sealant to see if i can mend that boot temporarily, so its out to the garage with the pup dog to tinker.   hold tight for some pictures 

What mods has the bike had? He could have buggered up the sensor or a loose lead. IIRC it's sticking near the air inlet on the airbox and they are fragile. Hermy's will probably have one if needed.

A '12 is CanBus and everything goes through that speedo, so that code could mean a lot more than "speedo inop".

[Barney]

I was taking a little artistic Liberty there - I believe on the the non-abs bikes the p0500 code indicates a sensor failure or misread, something along those lines.  

I pulled the plugs out and definite had a foul on the right cylinder. Between that and the silicon and a little 1000mph tape on that boot, the thing this running about 100 times better.  It's got that classic triumph/singer sewing machine sound, and pulls really strong through all the gears.

it's only got a couple of cosmetic mods as far as I can tell.  Someone pulled off the rear fender which looks stupid as hell, and it's got aftermarket blinkers, so someone messed around under the seat at some point

here's a pic of the thing...it really is a nice looking bike.





I also found this plug under the right side intake cover - can't seem to see figure out where it's supposed to go though..

[Curmudgeon]

Sorry, was out all day. That's a base Bonneville Black I suppose. Not a fan of the 17" front wheel from an aesthetic POV but they handle better with it. The frame never changed and its proportions were designed around a 19" front with spokes. Originally this setup was from the '09 SE for the vertically-challenged.

Anyway..., how long before you can post? PITA! That forum is moderated by some heavy-handed Canucks but the gurus there can really help you. Meanwhile, just keep searching. Anything from Forchetto or Ripper you can take to the bank.

Obviously the PO screwed up the wiring. That bike has no tach, right? As it's CanBus, try to get the speedo working. That's critical.

Sure, he was messing around under the seat. There is also a ton of wiring in the headlight shell. Just don't tug on the harness up there. Under the front of the tank under tape, the harness has a bunch of weak splices which have been known to fail.

As it's black, the fender you might be able to replace off eBay. Parts diagrams are on that Hermy's link I gave you.

You might also find TORS (Triumph off-road) mufflers on eBay ocassionally if you don't like the sewing machine. Not too loud and get better with age. You can run them without an OEM TORS tune. Might be slightly better with. Anything aftermarket and/or loud will require a different tune and a lot of PITA trial and error.

If the air injection is still there, leave it for now but pull the hose on the left top of the air box and pop a cork, plastic plug or similar in it and stuff it back in place and then raise the idle with the knob on the left side of the linkage to idle at least ~ 1,050. This will keep the headers from bluing further and get rid of some throttle snatch if you're lucky.

Mine's non-CanBus so different. Maybe that wire was for the OEM alarm?  Hope it doesn't go to a sensor! 

Wish I could help more, but not great with stringy bits. Slightly better with greasy bits. 

Good luck!

[Barney]

I believe it's a base model, as you're right, it's got no tach and the 17'' alloys (how i wish it had spoked wheels), but I think that bike originally came with the black painted engine covers, and this guy's got bare covers, which I think looks a little bit nicer.

I can probably post at this point, but I've gotten this far just by searching - found the dude Forchetto's post on the vacuum leak and that's basically what inspired me to roll the dice in the first place...could tell from that one post he's a guru over there - what he described, although less extreme, was basically what seemed was going on with the bike.

I may need to break down and post something today regarding that empty connection as well as where the speedo sensor lives...I took a quick look but didn't see anything obvious. Haven't done much searching yet though if it's not too busy at work I might be able to get somewhere. 

I'm sure the guy was also in the headlight, as there are aftermarket front blinkers as well - that should be fun to pull apart and see how badly it looks, but perhaps my speedo issue lives in there?

I had the tank off yesterday to pull the plugs out - and I didn't notice any part of the harness taped under there, so I'll probably pull it again tonight for a closer look if that's the case. 

as far as the exhaust goes, I don't hate it, but it definitely doesn't look good - however, it's also got a little rash on the right side, so I was considering pulling the whole thing off, repairing the rash with some jb weld as best I can and painting the whole thing black. i'll look into the TORS exhaust though - also one of the side covers is cracked to hell, so I might sand it down and try to repair it, and maybe paint it a nice British racing green, and if that works, maybe I'll pull the tank and try my hand at painting that as well - I can't stand the stickers under the clear coat on this bike...they look SUPER cheap.

Thanks for all the help by the way! always appreciated