So with all the new bikes from Ducati and the lack of an update in three years, can we expect a new Monster 1000 this year?
Quote from: SSSA on May 14, 2008, 08:29:56 AM
So with all the new bikes from Ducati and the lack of an update in three years, can we expect a new Monster 1000 this year?
The question is would you want what they will present?
I mean, I have no idea if they are bringing out a new version this year, but if they do, I have to hope they do not follow in the footsteps of the 696.
also, expect the 1000 engine to disappear entirely, and get replaced by the 1100 soon.
Yeah, plan on the 1100 engine for sure. I would expect similar styling to that of the 696. As of now we can only speculate as to whether it will be dry/wet clutch, SSSA, upgraded forks/brakes, etc... I'm hoping they do something a with the exhaust that will allow for better right foot clearance and ease of luggage mounting.
I wish they would stop it with the displacement increases every single update. Bigger displacement is not a technological advancement, it is just a tradeoff. I don't know why they act like increasing the size is somehow a step forward. It's great that the newer engines are better designed too, but I just don't think the monster ever needs to be 1100.
I suspect Ducati is waiting on releaseing a design/concept of any sort on the new larger monsters until they can see how the 696 does.
I'm hoping that no matter what they do, they retain one version (pref air cooled) of the old style monster in the sport classic line. Call it the "Monster Classic" or what-have-you. Of course this is just hoping and keeping up tooling and production lines costs money...
Quote from: wbeck257 on May 14, 2008, 09:00:37 AM
I suspect Ducati is waiting on releaseing a design/concept of any sort on the new larger monsters until they can see how the 696 does.
That's an excellent point that I hadn't thought of. The 696 sales should say wether the redesign is a failure or a flop.
Quote from: Alex on May 14, 2008, 08:58:32 AM
I wish they would stop it with the displacement increases every single update. Bigger displacement is not a technological advancement, it is just a tradeoff. I don't know why they act like increasing the size is somehow a step forward. It's great that the newer engines are better designed too, but I just don't think the monster ever needs to be 1100.
+1
mitt
I'm still hoping for something base on the 848 engine!!! [moto] Tha'd be a fun scooter!
Quote from: SSSA on May 14, 2008, 09:24:23 AM
That's an excellent point that I hadn't thought of. The 696 sales should say wether the redesign is a failure or a flop.
I think you will see the 696 based frame / bodywork faster than you imagined. Reason is that it is cheaper to manufacture for Ducati in Europe. Given the 1.54 dollars to 1.0 Euro exchange rate currently (and higher transportation costs for delivery process itself) -- Ducati's are only going to get more expensive every sales quarter. I'm also figuring you will see wet clutches only on everything except for the top end racebikes or limited edition bikes. It isn't cost effective to offer two clutch variations on the same engine platform ala DS1100.
Quote from: MotoCreations on May 14, 2008, 11:04:43 AM
I think you will see the 696 based frame / bodywork faster than you imagined. Reason is that it is cheaper to manufacture for Ducati in Europe. Given the 1.54 dollars to 1.0 Euro exchange rate currently (and higher transportation costs for delivery process itself) -- Ducati's are only going to get more expensive every sales quarter. I'm also figuring you will see wet clutches only on everything except for the top end racebikes or limited edition bikes. It isn't cost effective to offer two clutch variations on the same engine platform ala DS1100.
Sadly I believe you are right..!! :(
Quote from: WannaDucBad on May 14, 2008, 10:53:57 AM
I'm still hoping for something base on the 848 engine!!! [moto] Tha'd be a fun scooter!
+1
Would love to see a 1100 Ds Engined 696 Single sided swingarm version [thumbsup]
Something like this
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm272/jacopansegrouw/mONSTER1100.jpg?t=1210860465)
As long as they have a dry clutch, I would be ok with that..!!
Quote from: Juan on May 15, 2008, 07:32:27 AM
As long as they have a dry clutch, I would be ok with that..!!
It won't.
And why is a dry clutch so important. Is it common for you to swap the clutch pack while stopping at a red light?
Or is it the noise? (Read that as, "The same thing Harley guys say about their bikes... thats a Harley sound..." Thats a Ducati sound...)
Heritage is a nice thing, and it works [thumbsup]
Quote from: MotoCreations on May 14, 2008, 11:04:43 AM
I think you will see the 696 based frame / bodywork faster than you imagined. Reason is that it is cheaper to manufacture for Ducati in Europe. Given the 1.54 dollars to 1.0 Euro exchange rate currently (and higher transportation costs for delivery process itself) -- Ducati's are only going to get more expensive every sales quarter. I'm also figuring you will see wet clutches only on everything except for the top end racebikes or limited edition bikes. It isn't cost effective to offer two clutch variations on the same engine platform ala DS1100.
Mark,
I tend to agree with this thought however I think it would be a very bad idea for Ducati to drop the dry clutch. I've heard many many people groan when they heard/saw the 848 with a wet clutch.
I believe it would be alot like the effect of the 749/999 bikes and the deaperture from the SSSA. In the end they would have to change it back to a dry because thats what people want.
I also thing the 696 isn't going to catch on as much as Ducati had hoped. I remember when the first pictures of it started hitting the net and I would say most of the Monster community was horrified. It only got worse for me when I saw the thing in person at the IMS in NY. The quality and the fit and finish was awful. I can only hope it was a pre-production model and now that they are in dealerships they are better.
Quote from: Monstermash on May 15, 2008, 07:57:18 AM
Mark,
I tend to agree with this thought however I think it would be a very bad idea for Ducati to drop the dry clutch.
I also thing the 696 isn't going to catch on as much as Ducati had hoped.
I think you will see the dry clutch on the 1098 series and the replacement for the S4Rs series -- that's it.
As for the 696? (and this "design language") Wait until a few of us get ahold of one of these (any volunteer in the Seattle area?) and make some cool parts for it. I've already sketched out nine major parts and will build once I get ahold of one to CMM/Scan to get dimensions. I honestly think this bike has some great potential.
Quote from: Monstermash on May 15, 2008, 07:57:18 AM
Mark,
I tend to agree with this thought however I think it would be a very bad idea for Ducati to drop the dry clutch. I've heard many many people groan when they heard/saw the 848 with a wet clutch.
I also thing the 696 isn't going to catch on as much as Ducati had hoped. I remember when the first pictures of it started hitting the net and I would say most of the Monster community was horrified. It only got worse for me when I saw the thing in person at the IMS in NY. The quality and the fit and finish was awful. I can only hope it was a pre-production model and now that they are in dealerships they are better.
On the dry clutch. Once the magazines tested it, they found it works better than a dry clutch, is two pounds lighter and complies with Euro noise regulations. I like dry clutches just fine but who can argue with better performance and less weight?
Your right, the 696 horrified a lot of people around here but Ducati is also keen to lure new Ducatisti. The 696 is getting good press from every where (it seems) but here. I still prefer my S2R but I haven't ruled out ever owning a new generation Monster. If it's a good ride, it's a good ride. [thumbsup]
^
It's hard to argue with this logic, however I think the 696 is REALLY ugly and I won't ride an ugly bike.
Period.
Regardless of how well it outperforms last years model or outweighs(under weighs??) last years model, it won't be that much better.
Unfortunately, I think that mockup drawing a realistic view of things to come.
The 696 still looks like it was designed in China to me.
The Hypermotard still looks like a Duc to me though.
+1...The Hypermotard still looks like a Duc to me though.
Bring on the new Monster, wet clutch and all. If it works as well as the 696 that I tested last weekend it will be a huge step forward. In my opinon it looks good as well. If only my GT1000 worked as well as the new 696 outta the crate....
Quote from: monsterduc on May 15, 2008, 04:07:13 PM
I like dry clutches just fine but who can argue with better performance and less weight?
Sometimes it's more about the look more than performance.
Everytime I see a Duc with a wet clutch I think...boring!
I'll trade a few extra onces for dry clutch bling every time! ;D
Quote from: Monstermash on May 15, 2008, 07:14:07 PM
Sometimes it's more about the look more than performance.
Everytime I see a Duc with a wet clutch I think...boring!
I'll trade a few extra onces for dry clutch bling every time! ;D
Well said Mash and I agree with you 100% why ride a ducati if you dont have a dry noodle. I was all hyped to trade my s2r1k in for a 848 but as sexy and purdy that thing is probably will never by one new because of its wet noodle. Every other bike out there has a wet noodle the dry noodle makes the ducati unique and one of the reasons we all ride these munsters, and the ducati brand. If we wanted the fastest best performing bike out there most of us know we would not be riding a ducati. Ducati is unique special because it has what all the others do not have, character and soul. I have been looking around for a second scoot and have yet to find anything that gives me the woolies like me old ape baby.
-panthro
PS I owned a wet noodle for like 2 months then upgraded from the s2r800 to the s2r1k and have been a dry noodle ever since.
Quote from: wbeck257 on May 15, 2008, 07:42:55 AM
It won't.
And why is a dry clutch so important. Is it common for you to swap the clutch pack while stopping at a red light?
Or is it the noise? (Read that as, "The same thing Harley guys say about their bikes... thats a Harley sound..." Thats a Ducati sound...)
Actually yes. I've replaced my clutch two times in the time I've owned my bike......... It took me about 30 minutes per swap. I am not sure, but I'm guessing replacing a wet clutch would have taken more like 10 hours? Oh, and my clutch looks awesome too.
I dont really care about dry clutch, it wears out earlyer and the job to chance discs in both are easy job.
Ok its neat looking but thats it for me, L-motor sound is enough for me.
Thou this is my first duc, and im not one label guy.
Quote from: Alex on May 15, 2008, 09:19:07 PM
Actually yes. I've replaced my clutch two times in the time I've owned my bike......... It took me about 30 minutes per swap. I am not sure, but I'm guessing replacing a wet clutch would have taken more like 10 hours? Oh, and my clutch looks awesome too.
Just a few more fasteners and draining the oil since you need to take the whole side cover off.
The dry clutch must stay, it definitly is not a cost effective step.
Pricing has been released for the 696 in South Africa and it is going to be the equivilant of 10600 US Dollars, that`s almost 2000 US Dollars more than 695 [bang]
Quote from: big bear on May 15, 2008, 10:58:53 PM
The dry clutch must stay, it definitly is not a cost effective step.
Pricing has been released for the 696 in South Africa and it is going to be the equivilant of 10600 US Dollars, that`s almost 2000 US Dollars more than 695 [bang]
And you getting a wet noodle for 10k no thanks I will pass.
-panthro
As others have said, make mine a dry clutch.
I own bikes with each style clutch and I have had pretty much equal reliability. Does the dry clutch get loud with age .. you bet! do I care? nah.
A dry clutch is a link to the world or real race bikes, I remember being at a world superbike event and hearing a dry clutch rattle. I turned to look at what ducati was behind me and it was a hondakawasuzuma .... with a dry clutch! I started looking and a lot of the had them. hmmmmmm.......
what are they using in moto gp?
now this does not mean that I own a race bike but it is something that sets my bike apart from probably 90% of the other bikes out there.
The newest wet clutch is lighter, given. but dont you think they could put the same effort into making a light dry clutch? the vfr-ducati-cedici has a dry clutch it is pretty light I bet.
Each time Ducati starts to move their bikes more mainstream they move closer to the Japanese bikes and well if I wanted one of those. .....
I would own a bike with lower costs to own with a dealer on every corner. And tons of racing history as well, Ducati is far from the only brand that can win.
I really hope Ducati does not head down the corporate, bean counter , profit driver route too far. I am proud of the success the company has had but fear they are forgetting some of the things that put them there. [coffee]
Quote from: Alex on May 15, 2008, 09:19:07 PM
Actually yes. I've replaced my clutch two times in the time I've owned my bike......... It took me about 30 minutes per swap. I am not sure, but I'm guessing replacing a wet clutch would have taken more like 10 hours? Oh, and my clutch looks awesome too.
I won't own a dry clutch......and yet I've never had to change a clutch.....in 33 years of riding. So understandably the ability to change a clutch in a short amount of time is not a big selling feature...
It wouldn't bug me if they made the dry clutch exclusive to the upper-end ducs- it'd give me an excuse to buy one!
For me, that dry clutch jingle combined with the intake and exhaust, the whir of the belts, and the valves slapping around is orchestral. It's not about the clutch by itself, but how it combines with the rest of the bike to offer a unique experience while riding.
You can also make the same arguments against the desmodromic valve train. With advances in metallurgy the desmo does not provide any practical advantage on the street compared to a shim under bucket design. So, it would bring the cost down, it would be easier and cheaper to service, and unless you ride with the valve covers off, no one will ever know.
Another advantage of the dry clutch that no one has mentioned is that it keeps all that nasty friction material from the clutch plates out of your engine oil.
I agree, Ducati is unique and the changes I see on the 696 are moves towards hondakawasuki.
Next to go is the trellis frame...oh wait that's already half gone on the 696!
Maybe they'll add the monster to the classic line?
Quote from: SSSA on May 16, 2008, 08:57:37 AM
Next to go is the trellis frame...oh wait that's already half gone on the 696!
It is half gone on the Desmodeci too -- but are you gonna fault that bike for it?
Ducati's will still be the bike that most guys drool after. As long as we keep everybody thinking that they are all as expensive as the Desmosedici. [thumbsup] I don't mind the 696... my wife loves it... she can ride it... and I will borrow it some time. As to the clutches.... I like both... and want both.
Quote from: silentbob on May 16, 2008, 07:56:18 AM
Another advantage of the dry clutch that no one has mentioned is that it keeps all that nasty friction material from the clutch plates out of your engine oil.
That's the biggest advantage...and the only important one for a
street bike.
I like the bling of the dry, and I like the noise with the lever pulled in. But honestly, the racket in neutral with the lever out gets on my nerves after a while. Maybe it's because I commute on my dry clutch MTS every day. ??? I actually really like the wet clutch in my 848.
Whatever, wet or dry...it's just a clutch IMO. If I want the bike, then I'll get it. [thumbsup]
I have own 4 Ducs thus far. Only the very first one was a wet. The last 3 is dry. The next one i buy will be dry. I will never own or buy any wet Ducati.
Like others have said. I don't want something that looks/feel more mainstream to what 90% street bikes on the market is. Even if i did why would i buy these new 696 based Monsters? I can get a Hondakawasaksuzikiwhathaveyou and just put a Ducati sticker on it.
696? I'll pass :P
It does make me wonder if a Ducati Performance Dry Clutch kit will be the "must have" mod of the future [cheeky]
Good thread.
Back on topic... ;)
I reckon I agree with whoever said that Ducati will wait and see what reaction to the 696 is, though I reckon they're ready to pull the trigger on a Monster with an 848 engine in time for next Spring if the reaction is positive, and an 848 in a 'Classic' if not.
Meanwhile the 1098/848/696 sales should pay the bills and keep the Ducati profile high.
Interesting times.
PS Although I've had my 696 a week, I agree with those that say that Ducati needs to stay different, even if the ways they stay different are not the same as they have been. Air-cooled L-twin with a awesome exhaust note will do for now ;-)
(the 696 sounds much better than my 620, and there's plenty more power too)
They won't put an 848 motor in it.
They've never put a current superbike motor in a monster.
Quote from: wbeck257 on May 16, 2008, 11:24:51 AM
They won't put an 848 motor in it.
They've never put a current superbike motor in a monster.
There's the rumor of a 1098 naked though. Think it'll be a different bike altogether, and they'll drop the 4-valve Monsters? Or is it just that...a rumor which will never make it to production? ???
Quote from: ducvet on May 16, 2008, 05:00:51 AM
As others have said, make mine a dry clutch.
I own bikes with each style clutch and I have had pretty much equal reliability. Does the dry clutch get loud with age .. you bet! do I care? nah YUP! It sounds better an better the older it gets!
Fixed it for ya! ;D
Quote from: Triple J on May 16, 2008, 11:32:24 AM
There's the rumor of a 1098 naked though. Think it'll be a different bike altogether, and they'll drop the 4-valve Monsters? Or is it just that...a rumor which will never make it to production? ???
If so, than the S2R 1000 would stand alone in styling. That doesn't seem to make sense either.
Here's an interesting drawing:
(http://www.motivemag.com/Content/uploads/1/monster5.jpg)
Found here: http://www.motivemag.com/pub/news/New_Monster_696_rom_Ducati.shtml (http://www.motivemag.com/pub/news/New_Monster_696_rom_Ducati.shtml)
The frame looked pretty sweet there, wonder if that drawing was made before or after the frame was decided upon.
Quote from: wbeck257 on May 16, 2008, 10:10:25 AM
It is half gone on the Desmodeci too -- but are you gonna fault that bike for it?
D*mn dude..when did you become so bitter?? ??? ???
The Monster has/had the exposed Trellis frame. One of the reasons most Ducatisti like it.
Apples and oranges comparing the Monster and D16
Quote from: Triple J on May 16, 2008, 11:32:24 AM
There's the rumor of a 1098 naked though. Think it'll be a different bike altogether, and they'll drop the 4-valve Monsters? Or is it just that...a rumor which will never make it to production? ???
Though I love the idea I just think a naked 1098 would be way too much you would not get that ting out of second gear let alone third. Man sounds so sweet but way to much motor for that frame naked frame. I would like to see that 848 motor in the naked frame and change out the clutch make it dry.
-panthro
I believe the new bike will be a naked 1098 with bars just like the Aprilia Tuono and I agree it will be about as useful as the Suzuki B-King. But people want more power and that's what will sell. 0-100 times will not be any faster because you just can't put any more power to the ground through a street motorcycle tire. So, the added HP will only be usable at speeds which require clipons and a full fairing. But, you get bragging rights at your local Starbucks.
Quote from: silentbob on May 17, 2008, 09:33:37 AM
But, you get bragging rights at your local Starbucks.
...Emergency Room.
The 696 was displayed at the local dealership here in DFW, Texas and at least those who have seen it who have commented on it say that it is better in person than they imagined it would be based on the pictures. I suspect that the new trellis layout with cast subframe is the style that will replace the current bigger motored Monsters too. It makes sense to do it that way. The 696 is just the start then a DS1100 (with a wet clutch) and eventually an 848 as the topline Monster. The current motor on the S4RS and the 848 have specs at least HP wise which are no too far apart and the 848 motor will be lighter. Maybe two versions of the 848 Monsters just like the S4RS/S4RT.
If there is too much stink about the subframe, how hard can it be to fab a bolt on subframe made of steel tubes to replace the cast piece especially for the bigger engined bikes?
cdc
+1 the pics don't do the bike justice. The 696 is much better looking in person than it is on the interweb.
I'm not saying I'm crazy about all the changes, but it is a good looking bike in perspective.
Enough already.................... ;D
Change is as good as a holiday [laugh]
I guess the 696 is an indication of things to come 8)