I'm seeing more and more about the new Diavel and this looks to be a state of the art Awesome machine in every way. 162 hp....Seems like this is going to be a blast to ride but no matter which way I look at it, just doesent look attractive. I couldn't part with my money if it doesen't look sexy. Don't care how much of everything else Im getting for my money. Maybe seeing it in person but I don't think so. I think the VRod is cooler LOOKING and don't care for the Harley in any way. Just my opinion
Mike
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7610/img0902e.jpg)
tried it out at the dallas IMS show...
can't say i'm a fan...feels like there is 6 feet of bike from you to the front tire
doesn't feel heavy, feels like an 1198 when flicking it from side to side
Guy's selling point was how cool the passenger pegs are though
feels long, squishy and a bit forced
get a streetfighter, it's awesome in every way
Looks like a big monster.
Quote from: Turf on November 14, 2010, 08:56:39 PM
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7610/img0902e.jpg)
tried it out at the dallas IMS show...
can't say i'm a fan...feels like there is 6 feet of bike from you to the front tire
doesn't feel heavy, feels like an 1198 when flicking it from side to side
Guy's selling point was how cool the passenger pegs are though
feels long, squishy and a bit forced
get a streetfighter, it's awesome in every way
Passenger pegs? It doesnt have any room for a passenger going by this pic
Quote from: csp808 on November 15, 2010, 04:28:04 AM
Passenger pegs? It doesnt have any room for a passenger going by this pic
Maybe passenger sits in front. [laugh]
It is a good looking bike...
(http://www.paddockreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/2010_yamaha_vmax.jpg)
...wait...
wrong pic.
Sorry.
Quote from: Bick on November 15, 2010, 09:41:53 AM
It is a good looking bike...
(http://www.paddockreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/2010_yamaha_vmax.jpg)
...wait...
wrong pic.
Sorry.
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
ugly. I think they need to get back to the classic designs. Modern - like this on -just doesn't do it for me.
Quote from: Bick on November 15, 2010, 09:41:53 AM
It is a good looking bike...
(http://www.paddockreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/2010_yamaha_vmax.jpg)
...wait...
wrong pic.
Sorry.
BURN!!!! [laugh]
Everytime I see the Diavel, it just looks like some big plastic Toy.
Do not want.
Quote from: SpankyDuc on November 15, 2010, 01:09:48 PM
Everytime I see the Diavel, it just looks like some big plastic Toy.
Do not want.
You should see the version with a belly pan. :'(
Quote from: SpankyDuc on November 15, 2010, 01:09:48 PM
Everytime I see the Diavel, it just looks like some big plastic Toy.
Do not want.
+1
It goes along the lines of soft cheap plastic, not unlike:
their new logo
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3234/3004359516_7248130c5b_z.jpg?zz=1)
licensed toys for sale
(http://common.csnstores.com/common/products/IB/IB1229_l.jpg)
(http://hi-techreview.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/d75d_ducati_rc_motorcycle.jpg)
Looks like a Monster 696 that got too much of Tetsuos medicine :
the rise and fall of Tetsuo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmycQNOgq8&feature=related#normal)
I don't understand what Ducati was thinking???? Nothing seems to Flow. It really doesen't have a sexy line on it.
Quote from: mjk778 on November 15, 2010, 03:29:06 PM
I don't understand what Ducati was thinking???? Nothing seems to Flow. It really doesen't have a sexy line on it.
not sexy, it's designed based off a male sprinter...not sexy
I could not agree more but there are folks on my local board that want to slice my balls off for saying every single thing you all have said. Is there any wonder why I don't spend much time there? I have more in common with the general board on this one. It's make the beast with two backsing butt ugly and I don't give a rat's ass about Ducati wanting to allegedly expand it's customer base. That may be their reason for creating this abortion of a bike but I personally know of no one (Ducati wise) that would want one. I still think they would have done better marketing an ATV/4 wheeler. At least I could use that at my farm!! [laugh] The only thing that grunt box is good for is a nightmare or a bullet stop.
OK... wait for it... here comes the ass wipe from my local board for talking "blasphemy"!! [bang] [laugh]
Quote from: oldfastwin on November 15, 2010, 06:16:01 PM
I could not agree more but there are folks on my local board that want to slice my balls off for saying every single thing you all have said. Is there any wonder why I don't spend much time there? I have more in common with the general board on this one. It's make the beast with two backsing butt ugly and I don't give a rat's ass about Ducati wanting to allegedly expand it's customer base. That may be their reason for creating this abortion of a bike but I personally know of no one (Ducati wise) that would want one. I still think they would have done better marketing an ATV/4 wheeler. At least I could use that at my farm!! [laugh] The only thing that grunt box is good for is a nightmare or a bullet stop.
OK... wait for it... here comes the ass wipe from my local board for talking "blasphemy"!! [bang] [laugh]
I'm with you dude - I would state it a little differently but in the end I still feel the same way you do.
It sucks [beer]
Thanks. It's nice to have some one back me up. [thumbsup] [beer] [bacon]
Quote from: oldfastwin on November 15, 2010, 06:16:01 PM
...this abortion of a bike...
I think you mean abomination of a bike. The works FUGLY comes to mind.
Thanks for the correction. Much better "a" word. [thumbsup] [laugh]
Ducati made survey. It told them that half of the people who want a Ducati as their next bike don't have one now.
This probably means that Ducati have to offer something different to get additional sales. = Diavel. Maybe.
"nothing personal, it's only business" [roll]
For me, that's the only problem.... (if they take away the "personal" from my Ducati loyalty)
Meh. [roll]
It's not my cup o' tea, and I won't be buying one, but if it helps with the bottom line and keeps Ducati afloat to make more superbike goodness then good on them and good on those who buy one.
The title of this thread makes no sense.
Quote from: krolik on November 16, 2010, 09:51:00 PM
Meh. [roll]
It's not my cup o' tea, and I won't be buying one, but if it helps with the bottom line and keeps Ducati afloat to make more superbike goodness then good on them and good on those who buy one.
Same here, not my cup of tea and I'm not Ducati's target market (I buy all of my bikes/vehicles used).
However, Ducati is just taking a page from Porsche's (and others) playbook. The Diavel is Ducati's Cayenne (and you should see the Porsche purists rip on that vehicle!).
Quote from: Teutonics on November 17, 2010, 07:08:44 AM
(and you should see the Porsche purists rip on that vehicle!).
wonder what they think of the Panamera then...
for me..the problem with the Diavel is this...Ducati's successful lineage is from racing and machines that follow that mode/line...that is what they are good at and trying to do otherwise will fail IMHO...lets take the reverse for a moment...Harley made a sport bike once...as good as it was (for a Harley that is-the VR1000 BTW for those that need the direct machine I am refferring to) it was nowhere near any kind of success and did little to bring more of a different demographic into the brand fold...this too I think will end up running a bit longer than the Indiana, but ultimately will be a black eye oddity...
When I visited a dealer the other day, I guy rolled in on his, you guessed it, V-Max and asked the sales guy for info on the Diavel. He left with his name on a waiting list.
Ok, this is simple. The people on this board either have or want a Monster. People that want this bike either have or want a bike like the V-Max. Most people on this board do not want or like the V-Max, so most people will likely not want or like the Diavel. So we have dedicated at least 7 different threads to the fact that the board in general does not like this bike.
Quote from: duccarlos on November 17, 2010, 07:39:05 AM
Ok, this is simple. The people on this board either have or want a Monster. People that want this bike either have or want a bike like the V-Max. Most people on this board do not want or like the V-Max, so most people will likely not want or like the Diavel. So we have dedicated at least 7 different threads to the fact that the board in general does not like this bike.
I actually don't mind and kind of like the 1st gen V-Max and respect it for what it is...
But are you in the market to buy one? If I liked that sort of bike, I would be checking all the contenders, the Diavel included.
Quote from: duccarlos on November 17, 2010, 08:04:15 AM
But are you in the market to buy one? If I liked that sort of bike, I would be checking all the contenders, the Diavel included.
nope...not in the market for that kind of bike...not my style of riding comfort...but that doesn't mean I can't have an objective opinion on the market and models and so forth...I'd like to think I am being a lil more objective than most....
In general you are. I just have a bad taste in my mouth after a) the 999, b) the 1098 c) new Monster. It seems that the knee jerk reaction to any new bike from Ducati is to trash it first and ask questions later.
With that said, I think it's an ugly looking bike, but is it worth creating 7+ threads to complain about how ugly it is?
Quote from: duccarlos on November 17, 2010, 08:13:41 AM
In general you are. I just have a bad taste in my mouth after a) the 999, b) the 1098 c) new Monster. It seems that the knee jerk reaction to any new bike from Ducati is to trash it first and ask questions later.
With that said, I think it's an ugly looking bike, but is it worth creating 7+ threads to complain about how ugly it is?
understandable...but look at how many threads we had about the 1098 in 07 when it was coming....I'll bet it was more than 7....and I can't think of how many times we have bashed on the old Multistrada, the new Multistrada, as well as the 999 and it only seems natural that as a "Monster" forum we chat about the good and bad of the newer Monster's...LOL
the bottom line is...Ducati's are motorcycles that stir emotions...emotions don't always have to be positive...but a motorcycle generally is not a utilitarian purchase...it is an emotional one...
10-4 good buddy
Quote from: duccarlos on November 17, 2010, 08:13:41 AM
In general you are. I just have a bad taste in my mouth after a) the 999, b) the 1098 c) new Monster. It seems that the knee jerk reaction to any new bike from Ducati is to trash it first and ask questions later.
re c: I found it pretty disheartening when new board members (with new Monsters) were greeted with this reaction. :-\
Quote from: roy-nexus-6 on November 17, 2010, 02:03:59 PM
re c: I found it pretty disheartening when new board members (with new Monsters) were greeted with this reaction. :-\
It isn't / wasn't a personal attack. It is voicing less attraction to the new style. Nothing wrong with that, all in the eye of the beholder. Just like blonds VS brunettes.
mitt
but I like both blonds and brunettes. [evil]
I haven't posted on this board in quite awhile having gotten rid of my monster but I do miss it and will have another one someday, just not yet. Having said that and the fact I'm a huge Ducati fan...I love this bike! Lets steer this ship in another direction for a moment. Everyone is so appalled by the thought of Ducati making a non-sport bike and how it's going to dilute the breed. It's all about racing? No, it's all about racing technology. A bad ass motor, Brembo's handling the deceleration, a descent frame and chasis comb to stay with most people's skill level and a look that I think balances American exuberance with Italian flare. If you don't like the bike...don't buy it!!! And noone can dismiss this bike's racing potential or Ducati's vision yet...has noone ever heard of a little Vance and Hines company racing a modded Vrod in NHRA? Wouldn't it be nice to see the Vrod get it's ass handed to it on the standing quarter? There may not be any turns on a drag strip, but it's still racing if you ask me! You may now return to your regular rants, ravings and flamings of any change you may fear or different things you may not like.
Im not appauled by it, and if i was 300+ lbs i might consider it ... assuming my arms are too short to reach the handle bars on the 848. i cant wait to see how people start modding it.
i dont like the stock sport classics but have seen a whole bunch that are just crazy sexy after some mods! i think this thing has potential and as a drag bike it could be awesome!!!
and on a side note
"I just have a bad taste in my mouth after a) the 999, b) the 1098 c) new Monster"
whats wrong with the 1098?
Quote from: Mike D on November 19, 2010, 08:13:00 AM
~~~SNIP~~~
...has noone ever heard of a little Vance and Hines company racing a modded Vrod in NHRA? Wouldn't it be nice to see the Vrod get it's ass handed to it on the standing quarter?
~~~SNIP~~~
The Vance & Hines "V-Rod" has a ~2600cc engine built from scratch, making ~400HP.
Quote from: hadesducati848 on November 19, 2010, 09:52:14 AM
and on a side note
"I just have a bad taste in my mouth after a) the 999, b) the 1098 c) new Monster"
whats wrong with the 1098?
And what's wrong with the 999? I love mine! [thumbsup] To each their own. I like redheads, blondes and brunettes! ;D Since I can't have all of them (married [bang]) I have lots of different bikes. Bikes are more understanding. [cheeky]
i like it. there are plenty of other bikes i'd buy before buying a diavel, but i do like it.
there are a plethora of haters here. [moto]
Quote from: roy-nexus-6 on November 15, 2010, 01:49:18 PM
You should see the version with a belly pan. :'(
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LhXKxeMf2Ws/TNWbM4t8zOI/AAAAAAAABnI/eeYQaCGzpeI/s400/Diavel+&+Girl.JPG)
even geeks are making fun of it.
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/11/ducati-builds-a-devil-of-a-v-max/ (http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/11/ducati-builds-a-devil-of-a-v-max/)
Might not look so bad if something was done with the heavy looking plastic for air intake and the radiator. Fact is, if I wanted Ducati Cruiser my choice would be the simple, elegant DesmoDevil by our very own Mark Savory.
why do people get so defensive when someone doesn't like something they do?
Like my opinion insults you or something.
Nobody is insulting the bike's future owners or those who like it. I'm not saying YOU are ugly... just your bike. ;D
(if somebody posts mods I don' like I keep my mouth shut... as that's a little personal... but stock bikes are fair game. Ducati isn't going the right design direction for me).
I saw it today at IMS
The carbon version looks killer but not 20k killer.
Also it was pretty comfy to sit on. A bit long of a reach for my short stubby arms.
However when you get close to it the fit and finish was atrocious. I am not sure if these were rushed demo bikes but all the body panel tolerances were way off much worst than your normally fit and finish on dome model bikes.
Quote from: ROBsS4R on November 21, 2010, 10:50:51 PM
I saw it today at IMS
The carbon version looks killer but not 20k killer.
Also it was pretty comfy to sit on. A bit long of a reach for my short stubby arms.
However when you get close to it the fit and finish was atrocious. I am not sure if these were rushed demo bikes but all the body panel tolerances were way off much worst than your normally fit and finish on dome model bikes.
that sounds a lot like the Hypermotard when it came to the shows...it was a quickly rushed for showing finish job...I remember looking at the painted over shitty welds on the frame for example and going OMFG...then seeing finished real bikes, it wasn't as bad....I am assuming the same here, but the Ducati booth isn't making it to some cities on the IMS tour and DC happens to be one they won't be at...so I guess I won't see a bike with a shitty finish...
Quote from: Statler on November 20, 2010, 12:18:15 PM
why do people get so defensive when someone doesn't like something they do?
Like my opinion insults you or something.
Nobody is insulting the bike's future owners or those who like it. I'm not saying YOU are ugly... just your bike. ;D
(if somebody posts mods I don' like I keep my mouth shut... as that's a little personal... but stock bikes are fair game. Ducati isn't going the right design direction for me).
i'm reporting you to the board mods.
Quote from: Statler on November 20, 2010, 12:18:15 PM
why do people get so defensive when someone doesn't like something they do?
Like my opinion insults you or something.
Nobody is insulting the bike's future owners or those who like it. I'm not saying YOU are ugly... just your bike. ;D
(if somebody posts mods I don' like I keep my mouth shut... as that's a little personal... but stock bikes are fair game. Ducati isn't going the right design direction for me).
I am easily offended and you have no taste. There's nothing wrong with the 999 or the 1098, but it was blasphemy when the 999 replaced the 998 and the 1098 was compared to a Jap bike. I don't personally like it, but there's no reason to point out that others, like Statler, have no taste.
Quote from: Turf on November 15, 2010, 04:10:47 PM
not sexy, it's designed based off a male sprinter...not sexy
Male sprinter?
The front end reminds me of a cross of a retro vacuum cleaner and the head from Alien's http://aap.blackaris2001.org/AlienHead/AH.html (http://aap.blackaris2001.org/AlienHead/AH.html)
Theres a better sketch, but this was easier
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4475/screenshotlez.png)
Quote from: Turf on November 23, 2010, 09:58:37 AM
Theres a better sketch, but this was easier
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4475/screenshotlez.png)
...a picture is worth a thousand words "assume the position" is one of them [laugh]
A lot of people are comparing it to the V-Max but I say also:
(http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad148/dennisdib/xl2007_Harley-Davidson_VRSCDX_Night_Rod_Special_right_front.jpg)
The Harley even has a tube trellis frame (sort of).
We have the V-Max;
We have the V-Rod;
Maybe Ducati should have named it the V-Duc.
duc-rod
Vuc
like in Vuc you!
Quote from: Turf on November 23, 2010, 09:58:37 AM
Theres a better sketch, but this was easier
Whew, for a second there, I thought you meant this:
(http://i.treehugger.com/images/2007/5/24/dodge%20sprinter%202007.jpg)
Which is red. Also.
Quote from: triangleforge on November 23, 2010, 02:36:22 PM
Whew, for a second there, I thought you meant this:
(http://i.treehugger.com/images/2007/5/24/dodge%20sprinter%202007.jpg)
Which is red. Also.
na, that thing is actually kinda cool
Quote from: Turf on November 23, 2010, 02:38:50 PM
na, that thing is actually kinda cool
Especially for hauling your Diavel to Sturgis.
(Full disclosure - I'm in the "sort of like it" camp on the Diavel.)
Quote from: triangleforge on November 23, 2010, 02:41:27 PM
(Full disclosure - I'm in the "sort of like it" camp on the Diavel.)
[thumbsdown] go sit in the van
i am in the "i can dig it" camp, because there's different bikes for different things. For a cross country slow ride, this would be pretty ideal, especially when whoopin' ass stoplight to stoplight in new towns
If they had modelled this after a Female sprinter at least there'd be an ass I could love
https://ducatixss.mag-news.it/diavel/surveydiavel.do;jsessionid=B23023E7A599F285F69417A2574AC418 (https://ducatixss.mag-news.it/diavel/surveydiavel.do;jsessionid=B23023E7A599F285F69417A2574AC418)
Ducati survey about the diavel [evil]
Here's my review:
The passenger accommodations are terrible. This is a problem as the only reason anyone buys a power cruiser is because they're insecure about their ability to pick up chicks.
As for the design, people who ride powercruisers have no taste, so they don't care that it's ugly and/or beautiful.
In a nutshell, for people who like this sort of thing, it has much, but not quite enough, of the sort of thing they like.
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on November 24, 2010, 11:13:09 AMThis is a problem as the only reason anyone buys a power cruiser is because they're insecure about their ability to pick up chicks.
As for the design, people who ride powercruisers have no taste, so they don't care that it's ugly and/or beautiful.
[roll] Weak sauce
Quote from: Turf on November 24, 2010, 11:04:27 AM
https://ducatixss.mag-news.it/diavel/surveydiavel.do;jsessionid=B23023E7A599F285F69417A2574AC418 (https://ducatixss.mag-news.it/diavel/surveydiavel.do;jsessionid=B23023E7A599F285F69417A2574AC418)
Ducati survey about the diavel [evil]
Looks like Ducati got so many bad reviews that they took down the page:
"Access denied...."
When you click "login"
you get
"page cannot be found...."
[bang]
They made it look like that so that there will be lots of stuff to Mod. That exhaust would have to go, looks too Harley like, the plastic on the front would be a good place to start modding.
Quote from: D Paoli on November 24, 2010, 01:04:26 PM
They made it look like that so that there will be lots of stuff to Mod. That exhaust would have to go, looks too Harley like, the plastic on the front would be a good place to start modding.
I think the best mod that they could do would be....
....to start over.
In all seriousness though - I'll wait to see one in person first.
Quote from: Monster Dave on November 24, 2010, 12:46:12 PM
Looks like Ducati got so many bad reviews that they took down the page:
"Access denied...."
When you click "login"
you get
"page cannot be found...."
[bang]
Try again?
http://www.diavel.ducati.com/jsp/en/try/index.jsp (http://www.diavel.ducati.com/jsp/en/try/index.jsp)
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on November 24, 2010, 03:26:22 PM
Hit a nerve, did I? [laugh]
Hey....What the....Son of a..... :D
you done it now, reporting you too
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on November 24, 2010, 11:13:09 AM...In a nutshell, for people who like this sort of thing, it has much, but not quite enough, of the sort of thing they like.
[laugh] Beautifully said [clap]
Quote from: Monster Dave on November 24, 2010, 01:07:48 PMIn all seriousness though - I'll wait to see one in person first.
So I did. Get to see one that is. See one, touch and prod it. Sit on it even. I like the passenger footpeg mounts, they're a cute piece of thoughtful design [thumbsup]. Pity about everything else being so totally [puke] [puke] [puke].
No sir, not for me.
here's some interesting bits of info gleaned from another website...
The Ducati Diavel is supposed to be something of a segment buster, giving Ducati access to people who can’t or won’t ride a sportsbike and giving cruiser riders a Ducati-badged alternative. Interested to see who, exactly, is placing orders for the 162bhp muscle bike, we asked Ducati North America to share demographic data gleaned from deposits so far.
Ducati doesn’t have a formal system for collecting demographics from its dealers on customers placing deposits, so instead we have anecdotal evidence related to DNA by its dealers. We’ll categorize the observations by trends most dealers observed in most customers and trends that aren’t so universal, but still appear to be widespread.
Strongest Trends:
- Most people placing Diavel orders are existing riders.
- Most Diavel customers are 50 or older.
- The Diavel is attracting more women than typical Ducatis. Dealers report these women cite the seat height as the reason. At 30.3 inches high, it’s equal to the Monster 696.
Strong Trends:
- Some Harley riders are swapping their bikes for the Diavel, mostly V-Rod owners.
- Dealers report most new faces they’re seeing are staunchly opposed to owning Japanese products.
- Some former Ducati customers are returning to the brand from Harley specifically for the Diavel.
Local Trends:
- In Southern California, most Diavel buyers are existing Ducati customers. That’s largely counter to what dealers are seeing elsewhere in the country.
- Dealers in Texas report a strong uptick in deposits after the Diavel was shown at the Dallas motorcycle show. Some even report customers who had no interest in the Diavel ended up ordering it after seeing it in person.
Additionally, Ducati reports that most major dealers have already taken 10-15 deposits since the Diavel was unveiled at EICMA a month ago. That’s an strong sign that, like the Ducati Multistrada 1200, the Diavel will be a sales success.
So what does all this tell us? Well, there’s nothing terribly unexpected here. The $16,995 Diavel is intended to translate Ducati brand values like performance, handling and technology to a demographic looking for an easier riding experience. That the Diavel is bringing customers back to the brand from Harley is perhaps the strongest indication of its intention. The performance cruiser gives Ducati a way to hang on to high end customers once they’ve aged out of an 1198 or even a Multistrada.
That most regions report customers aren’t current Ducati owners is also a strong sign of its wide appeal and that Ducati is making its range more diverse. The female customers are an indication of how they’ve done this, delivering a bike that’s at once exceptionally friendly â€" low seat, light weight, traction control and other rider aids â€" yet also seen as being high performance. That combination is something that eluded established rivals like the VMAX, B-King and even the V-Rod, which opt for intimidation over approachability.
A friendly, fast, comfortable performance cruiser looks to be a winning combination.
courtesy of HFL...
^^^^
Interesting, but vague....
Define "most" and "some", please [roll]
Quote from: stopintime on December 02, 2010, 10:22:14 AM
^^^^
Interesting, but vague....
Define "most" and "some", please [roll]
most-more than half
some-not all
-brought to you by the association for a loosely murky understanding of vague-
you expect too many details, it is ducati afterall
Quote from: zooom on December 02, 2010, 10:09:30 AM
here's some interesting bits of info gleaned from another website...
Great post and summary. Maybe I am seeing this as glass half full. It appears to me that Ducati has been doing a fairly good job in attracting former owners and HD owners to the brand with its MS and Diavel. I would assume this is part of its effort to attract/build new customer base, and keep the current customers.
As its customer base grow older (as well as the overall population/baby boomers growing older), Ducati does need to come out with something to attract customers who otherwise would just go to HD. Diavel seems to be doing just that.
I know most of us (more than half :P) don't think much of the Diavel. It's rightfully so since this is a Monster forum and we do have similar taste, more or less. But, from what I can see/hear, the Diavel is getting the right attention from the general public.
my 2 cents
^^^^
The new customers attracted by MS and Diavel are not really new, are they?
I mean, they are probably middle aged....
The Diavel is only fighting for a share of the excisting riders.
To stay alive long term, Ducati needs to attract young riders even more.
One cylinder SS / SuperMoto / scooter - that kind of thing.
ducati is going to have to bring in a lower price point Supersport either as a mono or twin starting in the 350-400cc range to bring in the younger riders.
hopefully this is their next big surprise.
<::insert threadjack::>
Quote from: Raux on December 02, 2010, 11:57:25 AM
ducati is going to have to bring in a lower price point Supersport either as a mono or twin starting in the 350-400cc range to bring in the younger riders.
hopefully this is their next big surprise.
<::insert erection::> a resurgent Supermono would be absolutely fantastic, as the 696 with 80hp and 400lbs seems like it has put itself right out of the catagory that the 620/695 topped out the niche market of(newby/young riders)....and with the new batch of 250's coming to the US Market to finally give the Ninja 250 a real run for it's money...I think it is a segment worth exploiting....lets say for example you make an 848 motor the basis for said Supermono, and have it sell in detuned format (with like say 50hp) as said machine for the entry crowd and offer a severe hop-up kit to bring it to a peak performance (like say 70/80hp-ish)that is capable for others to use as a track day weapon...you'de have a win/win I think!!!
<:: end thread jack::>
Ducati doesn’t have a formal system for collecting demographics from its dealers on customers placing deposits
Really?
Quote from: zooom on December 02, 2010, 12:51:21 PM
<::insert erection::>
You know you're supposed to ask first, right?
Quote from: zooom on December 02, 2010, 12:51:21 PM
and with the new batch of 250's coming to the US Market to finally give the Ninja 250 a real run for it's money...I think it is a segment worth exploiting
A supermono would have almost no market cross-over with the Ninja 250 buyers.
Quote from: Speeddog on December 02, 2010, 01:15:08 PM
Ducati doesn’t have a formal system for collecting demographics from its dealers on customers placing deposits
Really?
Weird. They've got all their info already.
Quote from: stopintime on December 02, 2010, 11:44:19 AM
^^^^
The new customers attracted by MS and Diavel are not really new, are they?
I mean, they are probably middle aged....
The Diavel is only fighting for a share of the excisting riders.
To stay alive long term, Ducati needs to attract young riders even more.
One cylinder SS / SuperMoto / scooter - that kind of thing.
Probably most are middle-aged. I totally agree with that. I think that it's good however, that they are "stealing" riders that would typically ride bikes other than Ducati.
I also agree that they should try to attract younger riders but I'm not sure that now is the time to do that. I'm a year out of college and I can tell you that I struggled to find a job and am lucky to have one. The younger crowd probably doesn't have the money or credit to invest in a brand new bike like an older, more refined crowd would have. I could be right, I could be wrong. Just my theory though.
2010 LA Autoshow: Ducati Diavel Initiates AMG Partnership With a Smokey Burnout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bhEZJfwqcI#normal)
Well guy's I saw the Diavel and Monster 1100evo on wednesday over here in the UK at the NEC motorcycle show and I'm amazed how good they both look in the flesh. Although the Diavel isn't my kind of bike I'll hopefully run the shop demo bike in before we let the customers loose on it so I'll report back when the bike arrives plus the 1100evo to my mind is a nice tidy up an allready good seller... [thumbsup]
[coffee]
Quote from: Spidey on December 02, 2010, 02:06:43 PM
You know you're supposed to ask first, right?
I did.....just not you...LOL
Quote from: Spidey on December 02, 2010, 02:06:43 PM
A supermono would have almost no market cross-over with the Ninja 250 buyers.
sure it would...there are some that potentially haven't ridden in years and have come back to riding or those that were riding offroad and want something with maybe a lil more ooomph but a little friendlier like a GS500F but not a 'Zuki or perhaps want to upgrade from a 250 but not to a full on bigger CC'd machine....so it is a cohabitation of existence...
Anybody notice that the idiot in that video couldn't find the kickstand. [thumbsdown]
Quote from: Monster Dave on December 03, 2010, 10:14:58 AM
Anybody notice that the idiot in that video couldn't find the kickstand. [thumbsdown]
Nicky is not used to his Ducati having a kickstand, but I'm sure he knows how to ride.
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 03, 2010, 10:21:34 AM
Nicky is not used to his Ducati having a kickstand, but I'm sure he knows how to ride.
at least well enough to consistently be 5th [evil]
[laugh]
Was that Hayden??
[laugh]
ROTFLMAO!
Have to see it in the flesh, but from the pics, I would get one.
I too want to see one in person.
One of the things mentioned in this thread was cornering clearance. Maybe we should compare this with the cornering clearance of a V-Max, V-Rod, Warrior, Mean Streak etc. rather than something like the Monster.
That being said, I'd love to test ride one ~
JM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on December 05, 2010, 08:46:33 AM
....
One of the things mentioned in this thread was cornering clearance.
........
Most Monster riders struggle to lean all the way to the tire edge, which probably, for most, is just as well. Better to do that on the track or at least wait for very good, open and clear roads.
AFAIK, full Monster lean is around/slightly above 45 degrees. (a few sport tires allow close to 50 degrees?)
The Diavel is 41 degrees.
So, compared to most Monster riders riding style/capabilities - the Diavel might surprise us...
If I was looking for a V-Max, I'd buy a V-Max.
Just sayin'.
Quote from: stopintime on December 05, 2010, 11:19:43 AM
Most Monster riders struggle to lean all the way to the tire edge, which probably, for most, is just as well. Better to do that on the track or at least wait for very good, open and clear roads.
AFAIK, full Monster lean is around/slightly above 45 degrees. (a few sport tires allow close to 50 degrees?)
The Diavel is 41 degrees.
So, compared to most Monster riders riding style/capabilities - the Diavel might surprise us...
yeah, but that says nothing about the effort used to get it over to that point...and in their own promotional videos we've seen thus far, the professional rider doesn't exactly look like he is comfy or having an easy time getting the bike over in a turn...
he's also probably 145 lb with gear.
Quote from: zooom on December 06, 2010, 06:07:44 AM
yeah, but that says nothing about the effort used to get it over to that point...and in their own promotional videos we've seen thus far, the professional rider doesn't exactly look like he is comfy or having an easy time getting the bike over in a turn...
agreed! I don't struggle with my pig of a harley and it weighs much much more.
Quote from: a m on December 06, 2010, 06:38:18 AM
he's also probably 145 lb with gear.
[laugh] not excuse enough to see him playing tug a war with that bike. it feels way too light after having sat on one and you sit basically inside the bike helping you control the weight much better.
Quote from: a m on November 25, 2010, 08:01:37 PM
you done it now, reporting you too
how's that going for you?
i'm giving the silent treatment. they know what they did.
I am happy they are branching out. It's not for me.
But it's the first bike they've made in a long time that doesn't have a 24.X deg rake.
I had begun to think that's all they could come up with.
It's a new take on the ST design. It will sell, maybe not a huge amount. But bear in mind, the costliest part of it is the powerplant and that's just a testastretta, which means they are re-using it. That's good news for the 996-999 owners who might need parts...
Also, they are using a STEEL tank... [bang]
Quote from: stopintime on December 05, 2010, 11:19:43 AM
Most Monster riders struggle to lean all the way to the tire edge, which probably, for most, is just as well. Better to do that on the track or at least wait for very good, open and clear roads.
AFAIK, full Monster lean is around/slightly above 45 degrees. (a few sport tires allow close to 50 degrees?)
The Diavel is 41 degrees.
So, compared to most Monster riders riding style/capabilities - the Diavel might surprise us...
I think you're probably right.
My H-D VRSCR has a lean angle of 40 (versus the 32 of the rest of the V-Rod line) and I push it as hard as I ever did my M900 despite the difference in heft and wheelbase. The Diavel should be plenty sporty for the masses.
So Ducati NA has put out two new photos of the color schemes of the Diavel.
A Diamond black and red now with greyish side pods instead of the brushed AL.
I think they should go further and do this.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs737.ash1/163057_136058843117519_100001402122676_198526_209658_n.jpg)
Go online and tell Ducati what you think of the Diavel
https://ducatixss.mag-news.it/diavel/surveydiavel.do
**EDIT - Looks like they changed the link, can not access the survey directly now ***
did that
and posted it to their FB ;)
How can you not like this? Diamond Black has changed my feelings about the Diavel.
(http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Ducati-Diavel-Black-Diamond-2.jpg)
I still want something more on the tail.
something behind the passenger and mounting points for saddle bags
Quote from: Raux on December 15, 2010, 01:25:33 PM
I still want something more on the tail.
something behind the passenger and mounting points for saddle bags
to make it a bagger?
to make it a tourer.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs758.ash1/164925_136082583115145_100001402122676_198574_4126675_n.jpg)
Quote from: JimmyTheDriver on December 15, 2010, 01:21:59 PM
How can you not like this? Diamond Black has changed my feelings about the Diavel.
(http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Ducati-Diavel-Black-Diamond-2.jpg)
if they fixed the scoops and the headlight, i think i could go with it. the rest of the bike looks a bit organic, even Giger-esque.
it's that headlight tho.. it makes me think of this:
(http://dailypostal.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/King-Tut.jpg)
Isn't this a family/work friendly board? Stop posting pictures of that damn thing.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs736.ash1/162982_1762624750638_1389679964_1883530_1407981_n.jpg)
I liked how it felt. I'd like to test ride it though. Much lighter off the side stand than I anticipated. Visually it looks very heavy, but it came up off the side stand with no effort.
Much more comfortable than the Vmax was, at least sitting on it at the show. At 200 pounds heavier than the Diavel, the VMax didn't feel heavier so I'm not sure where it's carrying the weight, but the bars were also much narrower. Big problem on the VMax for me was my knees hit the intakes and don't let me clamp the tank with my legs. Maybe I'm not supposed to on this style of bike?
It seems Ducati is already at work on the successor to the Diavel. Here's a sneek peak
(http://put.edidomus.it/dueruote/news/foto/P1000405.jpg)
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Or, what do you get when you mix a Diavel, a Streetfighter and Crack.
it feels cheap to me, this is not to say it is, but the tank and air scoops looked like warped plastic IMO. I did like the stance but the bars need to be pulled back about another inch.
the more red on the bike it looks better.
wow so they put a steel tank on this one? lol.. at least it won't have the warping tank problem. go figure.
after seeing more pics with people on the bike, it doesn't look as large as i thought it would seems like its just a beefier monster in a way. and its still a 150hp cruiser which is before you start messing with termi pipes and such, so it should be interesting.
who knows maybe they will sell a ton of these things, all the better for ducati.
Quote from: muskrat on December 23, 2010, 01:14:18 PM
the bars need to be pulled back about another inch.
same for me. Needed them just a little bit further back, but I'm sure someone will be selling risers. Not that I can afford one so it doesn't really matter.
Quote from: Privateer on December 18, 2010, 03:38:45 PM
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs736.ash1/162982_1762624750638_1389679964_1883530_1407981_n.jpg)
Those shoes make it look awesome. :D
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 23, 2010, 06:46:14 PM
Those shoes make it look awesome. :D
i was thinking it was that splash of olive tapenade on his chin.
Quote from: Raux on December 15, 2010, 01:44:29 PM
to make it a tourer.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs758.ash1/164925_136082583115145_100001402122676_198574_4126675_n.jpg)
I just lost my dinner [puke]
I'm playing with this naughty thought.... [roll]
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll286/StradaleNuda/DucatiDiavelbyMarcelBastiaans.jpg)
Have a Great Christmas everybody!
Celli
Quote from: Celli on December 23, 2010, 11:02:18 PM
I'm playing with this naughty thought.... [roll]
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll286/StradaleNuda/DucatiDiavelbyMarcelBastiaans.jpg)
Have a Great Christmas everybody!
Celli
With the new GPR slash cut exhaust. [evil]
from
(http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Ducati-Diavel-Black-Diamond-2.jpg)
to
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll286/StradaleNuda/DucatiDiavelbyMarcelBastiaans.jpg)
make me almost want to trade in the 696
i think the pipes got to go though... maybe some boom tubes to really clean up that back end
Quote from: Celli on December 23, 2010, 11:02:18 PM
I'm playing with this naughty thought.... [roll]
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll286/StradaleNuda/DucatiDiavelbyMarcelBastiaans.jpg)
Have a Great Christmas everybody!
Celli
Thanks! Or with the GPR Slash Cuts Kopfjæger suggests!
Quote from: Celli on December 24, 2010, 12:34:38 AM
Thanks! Or with the GPR Slash Cuts Kopfjæger suggests!
Aprilia RSV4 Factory with GPR exhaust, model SLASH (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBaInEXdhdU#normal)
for the life of me i cant figure out why you would have a SSSA then block it with a huge exhaust. even the multistrada has that problem
Quote from: Celli on December 23, 2010, 11:02:18 PM
I'm playing with this naughty thought.... [roll]
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll286/StradaleNuda/DucatiDiavelbyMarcelBastiaans.jpg)
Have a Great Christmas everybody!
Celli
This further exaggerates the heavy front end bias of the bike. Makes me not like it more.
There's no balance with this bike to start with. The whole concept of being based on a sprinter in the starting blocks [puke]
Quote from: Celli on December 23, 2010, 11:02:18 PM
I'm playing with this naughty thought.... [roll]
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll286/StradaleNuda/DucatiDiavelbyMarcelBastiaans.jpg)
Quote from: Raux on December 24, 2010, 02:39:33 AM
This further exaggerates the heavy front end bias of the bike. Makes me not like it more.
I think it makes it look rather Giger/Alien-esque...
(http://www.art-gallery.com.au/bookscd/taschen/specials/images/alien3.gif)
and of course, if you were to turn this guy sideways to be on a flat plane...
(http://tecfa.unige.ch/~nova/img/giger_alien.JPG)
Quote from: zooom on December 25, 2010, 07:26:38 AM
(http://tecfa.unige.ch/~nova/img/giger_alien.JPG)
Best wall hanging ever.
The title still makes no sense.
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 25, 2010, 08:47:46 AM
The title still makes no sense.
The International League of Pedants called: You neglected to pay your annual dues.
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on December 25, 2010, 10:52:46 AM
The International League of Pedants called: You neglected to pay your annual dues.
(http://www.moonbattery.com/thecliffclavin.jpg)
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 25, 2010, 08:47:46 AM
The title still makes no sense.
Can't believe it took nine pages.....
It was on the second page, but no one noticed.
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 25, 2010, 04:40:17 PM
It was on the second page, but no one noticed.
i noticed and agree.... But ehhh...The looks???
I think its aesthetically offensive... but that's just me...
Quote from: hadesducati848 on December 24, 2010, 01:00:19 AM
for the life of me i cant figure out why you would have a SSSA then block it with a huge exhaust. even the multistrada has that problem
maybe they figure everyone gets an aftermarket exhaust anyway, so why try hard to make a nice looking one?
Quote from: hadesducati848 on December 24, 2010, 01:00:19 AM
for the life of me i cant figure out why you would have a SSSA then block it with a huge exhaust. even the multistrada has that problem
they've always done it that way except on the SBKs
(http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2006models/2006-Ducati-Monster-S2RDarkc.jpg)
(http://madeinitalymotorcycles.com/916%20018.jpg)
I like the getting rid of the mirrors and lowering the handle bars. The tail looks worse short.
Quote from: ducatiz on December 23, 2010, 06:54:22 PM
i was thinking it was that splash of olive tapenade on his chin.
never had tapenade but after reading about it, it doesn't sound like I'd like it.
I'm not sure if that was supposed to be funny or not, so I'll presume it was and not get butt hurt over it.
Quote from: Privateer on December 27, 2010, 01:15:29 PM
never had tapenade but after reading about it, it doesn't sound like I'd like it.
I'm not sure if that was supposed to be funny or not, so I'll presume it was and not get butt hurt over it.
of course it was supposed to be funny, but i've heard some people like to be butt hurt.. [evil]
and we make olive tapenade all the time, our neighbor has 80 yo olive trees and gives us a bushel or so of them every year.
Why is the bike so wide? I don't understand, this is basically the same motor as the other Ducati 4V bikes, right? The whole front is just this bulbous mass. It ends up looking the opposite of their intent, which was to look muscular. The bike just looks fat. I actually liked some of the speculative sketches that came out before the official unveil; it looked more like a "cruiser Monster."
It's gotta be wide enough to accommodate the battery, regulator and ecu along with other devices that are normally hidden behind fairings. You also have the airbox and such that has to be large enough to supply a big twin that is tuned up for performance. You cant do all that with a sportster skinny front end
Quote from: a m on December 27, 2010, 04:01:54 PM
It's gotta be wide enough to accommodate the battery, regulator and ecu along with other devices that are normally hidden behind fairings. You also have the airbox and such that has to be large enough to supply a big twin that is tuned up for performance. You cant do all that with a sportster skinny front end
the streetfighter,multi12 and S4R/t/s manage to be small using nearly all the same equipment
But I never liked all the additional plumbing on th S4*
Quote from: Turf on December 27, 2010, 10:18:22 PM
the streetfighter,multi12 and S4R/t/s manage to be small using nearly all the same equipment
The MTS has a lot of bodywork for plumbing, and the SF uses a SBK-like tail for some components and leaves the rest out there for all to see. It gives up a standard oil cooler as it is.
Quote from: AMGnDuc on December 27, 2010, 01:24:55 PM
Why is the bike so wide?
I didn't feel like it was much wider than my monster, at least not at the tank. I think those intake tunnels make it look wide.
Attack of the Duc chopper!!
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/bike-tests/2010/12/28/test-riding-the-ducati-mutant (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/bike-tests/2010/12/28/test-riding-the-ducati-mutant)
Quote from: oldfastwin on December 29, 2010, 09:17:05 AM
Attack of the Duc chopper!!
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/bike-tests/2010/12/28/test-riding-the-ducati-mutant (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/bike-tests/2010/12/28/test-riding-the-ducati-mutant)
man....I thought it was a riding test article about the Diavel.....damnit!
Quote from: DucHead on November 17, 2010, 03:25:06 AM
The title of this thread makes no sense.
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 25, 2010, 08:47:46 AM
The title still makes no sense.
Quote from: Speedbag on December 25, 2010, 03:44:19 PM
Can't believe it took nine pages.....
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 25, 2010, 04:40:17 PM
It was on the second page, but no one noticed.
Quote from: justinrhenry on December 25, 2010, 06:35:18 PM
i noticed and agree.... But ehhh...The looks???
Anyone notice how the title of this thread doesn't make sense?
Quote from: bergdoerfer on December 29, 2010, 10:25:35 AM
Anyone notice how the title of this thread doesn't make sense?
It sounds fine to me 8)
Quote from: bergdoerfer on December 29, 2010, 10:25:35 AM
Anyone notice how the title of this thread doesn't make sense?
Derby
Said it before and I'll say it again.
If I wanted a V Max, I'd get a V Max. This bike makes zero sense to Ducatis lineup, heritage or sporting history. It makes about as much sense as the Ducati Indiana or Apollo.
And it makes the V-Rod look svelte. There's an article in this month's BIKE with the designer trying to justify it's intent.
Quote from: hillbillypolack on December 30, 2010, 07:00:43 PM
There's an article in this month's BIKE with the designer trying to justify it's intent.
was the intent to polarize current Ducati owners as well as try and attract V-Max and V-Rod owners to the marque?
Quote from: hillbillypolack on December 30, 2010, 07:00:43 PM
Said it before and I'll say it again.
If I wanted a V Max, I'd get a V Max. This bike makes zero sense to Ducatis lineup, heritage or sporting history. It makes about as much sense as the Ducati Indiana or Apollo.
And it makes the V-Rod look svelte. There's an article in this month's BIKE with the designer trying to justify it's intent.
As far as "you" as a buyer, Ducati already has you. They aren't trying to attract you with this bike. They are going for a different type of rider.
If there are 5-7000 people per year,
worldwide, that will buy this bike instead of a VMax or similar, then the bike is a success.
The ST never sold more than 5000 per year and it was considered a success. Sales dropped off and they discontinued it. Same with the SC. All of this is in line with their plans to have a few lines that are standards (i.e. SBK, Monster/HMT) and a few lines that come and go (i.e. SC, SS, and ST)
Quote from: zooom on December 31, 2010, 04:15:40 AM
was the intent to polarize current Ducati owners as well as try and attract V-Max and V-Rod owners to the marque?
link?
how DARE they build a bike that won't appeal to everyone!
(http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/5/28/128880346384292391.jpg)
Quote from: ducatiz on December 31, 2010, 04:47:40 AM
As far as "you" as a buyer, Ducati already has you. They aren't trying to attract you with this bike. They are going for a different type of rider.
If there are 5-7000 people per year, worldwide, that will buy this bike instead of a VMax or similar, then the bike is a success.
The ST never sold more than 5000 per year and it was considered a success. Sales dropped off and they discontinued it. Same with the SC. All of this is in line with their plans to have a few lines that are standards (i.e. SBK, Monster/HMT) and a few lines that come and go (i.e. SC, SS, and ST)
5-7k WORLDWIDE? How does that even rate as a justifiable business case?
In other news, the Desmosedici sold how many and did WHAT for Ducatis reputation?
Quote from: hillbillypolack on December 31, 2010, 11:18:05 PM
5-7k WORLDWIDE? How does that even rate as a justifiable business case?
In other news, the Desmosedici sold how many and did WHAT for Ducatis reputation?
www.ducatinewstoday.com/.../ducati-cuts-production-as-us-sales-decline-by-half/ (//http://)
Quote from: hillbillypolack on December 31, 2010, 11:18:05 PM
5-7k WORLDWIDE? How does that even rate as a justifiable business case?
In other news, the Desmosedici sold how many and did WHAT for Ducatis reputation?
How many bikes do you think Ducati sells?
5 to 7000 bikes sold would be a huge number for them.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DucatiFactory/f0530578.jpg)
in case you can't read those, that's 2005 total world production
ST: 744
SS:835
SC: 4055
MTS: 5750
SBK: 6319
Monster: 15878
in order to grow the brand they need conquest sales. conquest sales mean offering bikes that compete with other mfgs lines on price point and market segment.
Quote from: Privateer on January 01, 2011, 08:03:24 AM
in order to grow the brand they need conquest sales. conquest sales mean offering bikes that compete with other mfgs lines on price point and market segment.
[thumbsup]
perhaps so, but id hate to see a ducati in every driveway. one of the main things i like about my ducati is that its considered exotic and high end. its not the most affordable bike so its mostly passed up as a first choice bike for many noobs who just got their licence.
I heard that the Diavel is going to be manufactured in the new Thailand Factory.
Quote from: Speeddog on January 01, 2011, 11:50:36 AM
I heard that the Diavel is going to be manufactured in the new Thailand Factory.
[laugh]
Quote from: Speeddog on January 01, 2011, 11:50:36 AM
I heard that the Diavel is going to be manufactured in the new Thailand Factory.
If they mean Diavel business in the US market, why not set up a small "factory" in the US....
That should make an impact in the cruiser market "made in US" (PR, jobs, ...)
has anyone seen a diagram of the rear suspension on this thing?
I've been trying to figure it out from pics.
Its a hardtail
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss116/Steve748/ducati-diavel-carbon.jpg)
you can see it here, its...different.
Quote from: Privateer on January 01, 2011, 08:03:24 AM
in order to grow the brand they need conquest sales. conquest sales mean offering bikes that compete with other mfgs lines on price point and market segment.
Mmmm. Well, that's one way to go about it, if you reserve yourself to be a follower. AFAIK Ducati has never really been a follower. Desmodromic valves were from what other cycle manufacturer? Single sided swingarm and undertail exhaust were from what other OEM? The Monster was loosely based on what bike (851/888 frame) but what was its competition in that segment in 1994? The Supermono and Desmosedici were offshoots of what part of Ducati's engineering arm? And bikes like the Hypermotard and Multistrada were previously nonexistent segments before Ducati created them (possibly with the exception of the Triumph Tiger in the MS' case).
Being successful involves undertaking endeavours nobody else is doing. That's the definition of being an entrepreneur and a market leader.
Quote from: hillbillypolack on January 01, 2011, 08:17:59 PM
Mmmm. Well, that's one way to go about it, if you reserve yourself to be a follower. AFAIK Ducati has never really been a follower. Desmodromic valves were from what other cycle manufacturer? Single sided swingarm and undertail exhaust were from what other OEM? The Monster was loosely based on what bike (851/888 frame) but what was its competition in that segment in 1994? The Supermono and Desmosedici were offshoots of what part of Ducati's engineering arm? And bikes like the Hypermotard and Multistrada were previously nonexistent segments before Ducati created them (possibly with the exception of the Triumph Tiger in the MS' case).
Being successful involves undertaking endeavours nobody else is doing. That's the definition of being an entrepreneur and a market leader.
I dont know a ton about cruisers but it seems to me that there is a certain lacking of performance in that realm. to put out a bike with cruiser comfort/looks that has ohlins suspension, brembo brakes, 160~bhp engine and a lightweight frame IS being innovative. everyone who rides sportbikes knows that ducati makes excellent bikes, this bike will simply give those that would never look ducati's way a reason to come into the showroom and has the added bonus of giving the aging ducati crowd something fun and "cool" a bike to ride that wont break their backs going around the corner.
Ducati has always been innovative but that doesn't mean it ignores trends either. the sport 1000 came out when cafe bikes started to trend, the hyper came out a good decade after the first ktm supermoto and bmw has been making touring bikes since the 70s. as for the streetfighter? please...
FYI, I dont want the diavel and I dont like cruisers. I just can see how a bike like this fits a very large market that ducati had been missing out on, and if that gives them extra cash to R&D race bikes or pay Rossi's salary then thats ok by me.
I honestly don't see how this could be considered a 'cruiser'. The geometry isn't relaxed enough for that.
It's more in line with the K1200R, B-King and V-Max. And the B-Kings are sitting in dealerships collecting dust while the dealerships are offering $3000 off the list price.
This seems to be a well-established segment already without many players. I'd like to reference sales numbers, but I don't see many of these bikes on the street. . (?)
So. Just food for thought.
(http://www.moto-blog.pl/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/suzuki-b-king.jpg)
(http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/8979879/122_0509_rule_08z+2005_bmw_k1200r+front_side_view.jpg)
(http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/15252593/122_0903_13_z+2009_star_v_max+back_view.jpg)
Quote from: hillbillypolack on January 01, 2011, 10:00:41 PM
I honestly don't see how this could be considered a 'cruiser'.
Ok we get it, you don't like it. Nothing to see here, move along. :-X
Quote from: kopfjäger on January 01, 2011, 10:12:40 PM
Ok we get it, you don't like it. Nothing to see here, move along. :-X
The jury's out. I haven't seen it in person, nor ridden one. It's not impressive on paper. Then again, neither were other bikes I've bought after a test ride.
It's difficult for me to see how this 'fits' within the Ducati lineup.
It's hideous how many bad design cues the Diavel takes from these these monstrousities (and I'm not using that is the sense of our beloved Monsters)
Quote from: hillbillypolack on January 01, 2011, 10:00:41 PM
I honestly don't see how this could be considered a 'cruiser'. The geometry isn't relaxed enough for that.
It's more in line with the K1200R, B-King and V-Max. And the B-Kings are sitting in dealerships collecting dust while the dealerships are offering $3000 off the list price.
This seems to be a well-established segment already without many players. I'd like to reference sales numbers, but I don't see many of these bikes on the street. . (?)
So. Just food for thought.
(http://www.moto-blog.pl/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/suzuki-b-king.jpg)
(http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/8979879/122_0509_rule_08z+2005_bmw_k1200r+front_side_view.jpg)
(http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/15252593/122_0903_13_z+2009_star_v_max+back_view.jpg)
Quote from: hillbillypolack on January 01, 2011, 08:17:59 PM
(possibly with the exception of the Triumph Tiger in the MS' case).
The MTS was indeed an original bike when it came out in 2003. The Tiger existed then, but as an adventure tourer complete with a 19" (maybe 21"; can't remember) front wheel, not as an upright sportbike like it has become since being re-designed and released as the 1050 in 2007.
Quote from: hillbillypolack on January 01, 2011, 10:28:34 PM
The jury's out. I haven't seen it in person, nor ridden one. It's not impressive on paper. Then again, neither were other bikes I've bought after a test ride.
It's difficult for me to see how this 'fits' within the Ducati lineup.
it's a different type of sport riding for guys who either don't want to or can't lean over a tank any more and have short inseams and can't ride a multistrada?
Even still, HD alone sells about $4 billion (revenue) worth of cruisers annually. Even a small slice of that is big dollars for Ducati.
Ok, next weekend I'm going to the local Ducati dealer and see this in person. Something to generate this much animosity is worth seeing in the flesh.... Metal I guess?
Who knows. Privateer makes a good point about sales money.
I'm a fan of "musclebikes" as I call them. V-Rod, V-Max, Warrior, Mean Streak, M109R etc. One that can corner nicely and makes some serious power too would garner a second look if I was going dealer to dealer checking out those market offerings ~
JM
Here's the thing: The BKing (sounds like a dollar menu item, BTW) and the VMAX are both heavy-ass bikes.
The Diavel, not so much.
Ducati might be on to something. If not, it's not like they invested a lot of R&D on this puppy.
Then there is this.......... sorry if it's a Derby.
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/bike-tests/2010/12/28/test-riding-the-ducati-mutant/1 (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/bike-tests/2010/12/28/test-riding-the-ducati-mutant/1)
Quote from: Triple J on January 02, 2011, 04:47:54 PM
The MTS was indeed an original bike when it came out in 2003. The Tiger existed then, but as an adventure tourer complete with a 19" (maybe 21"; can't remember) front wheel, not as an upright sportbike like it has become since being re-designed and released as the 1050 in 2007.
Vstrom predated the MTS by a
year two years.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 03, 2011, 08:20:33 AM
Vstrom predated the MTS by a year two years.
...and the V-strom is a GS knock-off, made for adventure touring with a 19" front wheel. The original MTS was an upright sportbike.
Quote from: Triple J on January 03, 2011, 08:26:32 AM
...and the V-strom is a GS knock-off, made for adventure touring with a 19" front wheel. The original MTS was an upright sportbike.
gotcha
But Ducati created the superbike. (Please say yes since I live in my pretty world where Ducati is the only manufacturer allowed to come up with good ideas)
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on January 02, 2011, 11:28:50 PM
Here's the thing: The BKing (sounds like a dollar menu item, BTW) and the VMAX are both heavy-ass bikes.
The Diavel, not so much.
Ducati might be on to something. If not, it's not like they invested a lot of R&D on this puppy.
this is where I'm at as well, I think power cruiser style bikes are cool, but never really wanted one due to the poor handling. If the Diavel handles decently than it's going to be one hell of a power cruiser. In fact, I think it may very well end up creating a new class of motorcycle. Similar to the way sport touring models bridged the gap between pure sport bikes and standard touring bikes, the Diavel may well bridge the gap between cruiser and standard sport, with a bike that has the look and oomph of a power cruiser but the handling of sport standard. I dunno, perhaps I'm being overly optimistic.
One thing I will say, I hated the initial photos of the Diavel, but thought it looked much, much better in person at Toronto motorcycle show. In fact I would go so far as to say it actually looked pretty sharp.
Quote from: pitbull on January 03, 2011, 01:45:51 PM
If the Diavel handles decently than it's going to be one hell of a power cruiser. In fact, I think it may very well end up creating a new class of motorcycle.
the power cruiser market already exists. They haven't created anything new with this bike. Everyone needs to realize that a cruiser is meant for.............cruising...........and if it has power to boot then great. Sometimes we forget what the bike is made to do. There's no way this will ever be anything remotely close to a Monster or 1198 period. 90% of the people who live on this board hate cruisers and good for them, that's why there's sport bikes. I personally like both and own both for the days I feel like clogging up roads and blowing my lines. :P
You can always take your 999S up to the Dragon, and have Yellow Wolf film you from his Gold Wing. [evil]
Ducati 999s followed/filmed by Yellow Wolf -Deals Gap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCWy-sVCaJY#normal)
deals gap on a goldwing/gl1800 by yellow wolf dragons tail (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrMQ3QwyPo#normal)
he is the "notable" exception ;D
Quote from: muskrat on January 03, 2011, 06:50:54 PM
he is the "notable" exception ;D
His buddy filming him from his Wing, as well. [thumbsup]
;) let me guess.........YOU :o
by the way, just saw the price on a Termi system for this bike at $3,200 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: muskrat on January 03, 2011, 08:10:43 PM
;) let me guess.........YOU :o
Heck no, I'd be upside down in a ditch. :D
Quote from: kopfjäger on January 03, 2011, 08:36:22 PM
Heck no, I'd be upside down in a ditch. :D
Harley Wreck on the Tail of the Dragon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF5Cttoi7dY#normal)
Quote from: Drunken Monkey on January 02, 2011, 11:28:50 PM
Ducati might be on to something. If not, it's not like they invested a lot of R&D on this puppy.
how do you come up with that ??
yes ducati makes 2 wheeled bikes and they already had the motor , but you think they didnt invest a lot of R&D ???
when was the last time HD spent some money on R&D ? ;)
Quote from: J5 on January 03, 2011, 11:28:56 PM
how do you come up with that ??
yes ducati makes 2 wheeled bikes and they already had the motor , but you think they didnt invest a lot of R&D ???
when was the last time HD spent some money on R&D ? ;)
R&D money is motors and engine tuning. Trust me, CAD work and the plastic / carbon fiber molds / frame design that went into the Diavel didn't cost shit in comparison to what went into the engine design.
And I'm sure Harley paid Porsche some money for that "high output" engine [laugh]
Quote from: J5 on January 03, 2011, 11:28:56 PM
when was the last time HD spent some money on R&D ? ;)
Actually, they do a lot of R&D. Just more conservatively than others. Despite everything looking the same forever, the engines are vastly improved internally.
And there are some surprising things coming, or so I'm told....
Quote from: Speedbag on January 04, 2011, 04:26:01 AM
Actually, they do a lot of R&D. Just more conservatively than others. Despite everything looking the same forever, the engines are vastly improved internally.
And there are some surprising things coming, or so I'm told....
it's true
i've heard the new pushrods are chamfered at 11 deg instead of 15 deg.
Bazinga
Quote from: kopfjäger on January 03, 2011, 06:18:34 PM
You can always take your 999S up to the Dragon, and have Yellow Wolf film you from his Gold Wing. [evil]
Ducati 999s followed/filmed by Yellow Wolf -Deals Gap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCWy-sVCaJY#normal)
deals gap on a goldwing/gl1800 by yellow wolf dragons tail (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrMQ3QwyPo#normal)
Listen to the scraping!
Quote from: muskrat on January 03, 2011, 06:04:51 PM
the power cruiser market already exists. They haven't created anything new with this bike. Everyone needs to realize that a cruiser is meant for.............cruising...........and if it has power to boot then great. Sometimes we forget what the bike is made to do. There's no way this will ever be anything remotely close to a Monster or 1198 period. 90% of the people who live on this board hate cruisers and good for them, that's why there's sport bikes. I personally like both and own both for the days I feel like clogging up roads and blowing my lines. :P
yeah........that's not what I said but good job cherry picking a quote to suit your purpose. I said Ducati might very well create something new with a power cruiser/standard-sport, if it handles well. Certainly nothing in the power cruiser segment fits that bill so far. If this thing handles anywhere remotely close to a monster and has the comfort of a power cruiser, it could be something entirely new, despite your expert final and absolute decision to the contrary.
So, I called a local Ducati dealer to find out when they plan to have a model to at least take a look at and the guy tells me that they aren't scheduled to get any until March, but that the bikes built for sale by Ducati NA for the first quarter of the year are already sold.
Not that I'm even remotely interested in buying one, but dang that's a lot of people buying something very new sight unseen.
Quote from: Monster Dave on January 04, 2011, 01:07:38 PM
So, I called a local Ducati dealer to find out when they plan to have a model to at least take a look at and the guy tells me that they aren't scheduled to get any until March, but that the bikes built for sale by Ducati NA for the first quarter of the year are already sold.
Not that I'm even remotely interested in buying one, but dang that's a lot of people buying something very new sight unseen.
I recall them selling pretty much 70% of the MHE900's that way as well as the 1 round of production Sport Classic's that way as well as the Sedici's for the most part...so it isn't THAT surprising really....
One of the locals (peeeetah from across the pond) already has the plate DIAVEL on his ps1000le, obviously for his upcoming purchase.
actually the entire run of MH900e was sold the first day online.
Quote from: pitbull on January 04, 2011, 12:06:53 PM
yeah........that's not what I said but good job cherry picking a quote to suit your purpose. I said Ducati might very well create something new with a power cruiser/standard-sport, if it handles well. Certainly nothing in the power cruiser segment fits that bill so far. If this thing handles anywhere remotely close to a monster and has the comfort of a power cruiser, it could be something entirely new, despite your expert final and absolute decision to the contrary.
That's how it read to me and I was not cherry picking, just pulling out what I was responding to. Anyway, who cares if you're not buying one - I'm not. I stand by my original comment that this is not new but we can expect it to handle well, after all it's a Ducati. And my opinion is NOT final and absolute as you may think it is. I have owned a multitude of bikes for a multitude of reasons so I offered my opinion on that, too bad if you don't like it.
Quote from: muskrat on January 03, 2011, 08:29:57 PM
by the way, just saw the price on a Termi system for this bike at $3,200 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Wow. I sure hope that's not the real price. But it doesn't surprise me. The recent bikes from Bologna are always too choked up and geared too tall right off the dealership floor. Yes, I understand it's meeting EPA standards but adding 3k on top of the MSRP (just to get it to run right) is ridiculous.
Re-gearing, Termi ECU, slip ons and headers cost $2400 for my lowly S2R now that I think about it. Ugh.
it was from a dealer website where I got that price. hurts to think about it.
Quote from: Raux on January 04, 2011, 02:28:56 PM
actually the entire run of MH900e was sold the first day online.
i seem to remember them selling 1000 and then deciding to make another 1000 and they took ages to sell
Quote from: muskrat on January 03, 2011, 06:04:51 PM
the power cruiser market already exists. They haven't created anything new with this bike. Everyone needs to realize that a cruiser is meant for.............cruising...........and if it has power to boot then great. Sometimes we forget what the bike is made to do. There's no way this will ever be anything remotely close to a Monster or 1198 period. 90% of the people who live on this board hate cruisers and good for them, that's why there's sport bikes. I personally like both and own both for the days I feel like clogging up roads and blowing my lines. :P
my mistake..........nothing about your post suggests you cherry picked my quote and nothing about your post, even "there's no way this will ever be anything remotely close to a monster or 1198 PERIOD" sounds final and absolute at all.
I guess I just have comprehension issues................thanks for clearing it up for me.
and......if there is nothing new about the diavel, what other bike would you say is similar?
Quote from: pitbull on January 05, 2011, 06:22:18 AM
my mistake..........nothing about your post suggests you cherry picked my quote and nothing about your post, even "there's no way this will ever be anything remotely close to a monster or 1198 PERIOD" sounds final and absolute at all.
I guess I just have comprehension issues................thanks for clearing it up for me.
and......if there is nothing new about the diavel, what other bike would you say is similar?
Sensitive type? [laugh] My opinion is that this is no 1198 or remotely close to it, for crying out loud it's a superbike and simply putting the engine in a "cruiser" doesn't make it the same besides no one has driven one yet....jury is out. Opinions abound, keep yours and I'll keep mine.
Quote from: muskrat on January 05, 2011, 09:38:04 AM
Sensitive type? [laugh] My opinion is that this is no 1198 or remotely close to it, for crying out loud it's a superbike and simply putting the engine in a "cruiser" doesn't make it the same besides no one has driven one yet....jury is out. Opinions abound, keep yours and I'll keep mine.
and I never suggested for a second the Diavel would be anything remotely close to an 1198, so I'm not sure who your having that debate with and why you would choose to include it in post responding to mine.
and you made the claim that there is nothing new about the Diavel, but still haven't mentioned what bikes in which class might be similar.
I will agree with you that ultimately the "jury is out" until it actually arrives for test rides...........which is why I refrained from making any absolute type statements about what the bike will be. ;)
Quote from: pitbull on January 05, 2011, 02:54:15 PM
and you made the claim that there is nothing new about the Diavel, but still haven't mentioned what bikes in which class might be similar.
I will agree with you that ultimately the "jury is out" until it actually arrives for test rides...........which is why I refrained from making any absolute type statements about what the bike will be. ;)
I'm cherry picking your post again. :-[
And I absolutely......wait, never mind.
Diavel is in the same class as the Vrod, M109, Vmax and others. They are designed differently (wow what a concept) but they are classified as power cruisers.
Quote from: muskrat on January 05, 2011, 05:17:08 PM
I'm cherry picking your post again. :-[
And I absolutely......wait, never mind.
Diavel is in the same class as the Vrod, M109, Vmax and others. They are designed differently (wow what a concept) but they are classified as power cruisers.
so like a vrod, vmax, m109 except 200lbs lighter, with 40 more HP, quality suspension and decent ground clearance.................kinda like a power cruiser, but not really at all. Kinda, almost, possibly like a new class of motorcycle if the the real world performance matches the specs.
your absolutely right.......... period.
/thread
(http://www.chickenkeepers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/chickens.jpg)
look at all those cocks!
Quote from: pitbull on January 05, 2011, 05:35:38 PM
so like a vrod, vmax, m109 except 200lbs lighter, with 40 more HP, quality suspension and decent ground clearance.................kinda like a power cruiser, but not really at all. Kinda, almost, possibly like a new class of motorcycle if the the real world performance matches the specs.
built differently which means weight, power and suspension.
Quote from: pitbull on January 05, 2011, 05:35:38 PM
your absolutely right.......... period.
finally you're onto something.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 05, 2011, 05:37:28 PM
/thread
(http://www.chickenkeepers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/chickens.jpg)
too many cocks. must be a single's bar.
bunch of urban puck sniffers, there is only one rooster in that picture...
obviously. its that big sumpregnant dog in the middle
(http://www.coveside.biz/titmouse-inset.gif)(http://petcaregt.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/tufted-titmouse-0006.jpg)
boobies have been done. i present, tits.
Quote from: muskrat on January 05, 2011, 05:47:12 PM
built differently which means weight, power and suspension.
finally you're onto something.
too many cocks. must be a single's bar.
excellent..............so going back to my post on pg 13 you've decided your now in agreement
who says a yard full of cocks can't get along. [thumbsup]
Quote from: a m on January 05, 2011, 07:17:55 PM
obviously. its that big sumpregnant dog in the middle
"yeaaahhhh..... aw yeaaahh"
Quote from: muskrat on January 05, 2011, 09:38:04 AM
it's a superbike and simply putting the engine in a "cruiser" doesn't make it the same
putting superbike engines in anything that isnt a superbike is always a good idea. for that reason alone im looking forward to riding this bike.
Quote from: xcaptainxbloodx on January 05, 2011, 07:28:34 PM
putting superbike engines in anything that isnt a superbike is always a good idea. for that reason alone im looking forward to riding this bike.
i assume you mean "
any bike that isn't a superbike" right?
well i think it would be fun to have one in a shifter cart.
and in a smart car.
[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
no point. the thread is now more interesting with tits.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 05, 2011, 07:32:23 PM
i assume you mean "any bike that isn't a superbike" right?
no imagination.
little red wagon, grocery cart, leaf blower, barbecue, washing machine, toilet, chainsaw, blender, skateboard, record player... all things I wouldent mind seeing a sbk engine in ;D
Quote from: a m on January 05, 2011, 07:34:18 PM
well i think it would be fun to have one in a shifter cart.
and in a smart car.
like the Prancing Mouse?
http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/cars/fiat/08/prancing_mouse/1108.html (http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/cars/fiat/08/prancing_mouse/1108.html)
gadzooks that's neat
Quote from: zooom on January 06, 2011, 07:31:44 AM
like the Prancing Mouse?
http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/cars/fiat/08/prancing_mouse/1108.html (http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/cars/fiat/08/prancing_mouse/1108.html)
put some 20 inch off road wheels and you're set. [thumbsup]
bummed that the 6 year old site for that still has no prototype
(http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/Wrong_internet.jpg)
[laugh]
that's a classic. [beer] [beer]
Quote from: xcaptainxbloodx on January 06, 2011, 06:02:09 PM
bummed that the 6 year old site for that still has no prototype
With a Fiat 500 and a couple of Ducatis in the garage this has long been a dream of mine ... a Ducati superbike powered Fiat 500. I didn't realise somebody else was thinking of it. Shame that is doesn't seem to have progressed.
By the way the earlier Fiat 500s (the 500C for example, not the 'D' shown in the linked article) was known as the 'Mouse' and had a completely different look.
So I finally got to see the Diavel in person today at the NY Motorcycle show and I am still not a fan. It is not attractive at all. There did not seem to be too much excitement surrounding it either, even with two smokin hot blondes draped all over it. It did feel comfortable, although I could not feel the weight as it was on a center stand. Too be quite honest there was not too much at the show that really stood out, and I was surprised that many of the Diavel's so called "power cruiser" competition felt less comfortable and looked cheaper and tackier than the Duc. Perhaps Ducati IS onto something, I hope they do succeed breaking into this previously untapped (for Duc) market. It can only mean one thing for us Die-Hards.....We will reap the rewards of successful model by getting more from Ducati of what we know and love.....Like the 848 EVo. All I can say is Beeaautiful.
Quote from: mjk778 on January 21, 2011, 09:14:11 PM
Like the 848 EVo. All I can say is Beeaautiful.
the dark that is ... the flat white with the red rims makes me want to [puke]
and i have a white 848 sadly not the evo
Yeah those red wheels don't look good. Much prefer black or gold
yeah who thought of those red wheels? [puke] [puke] [puke] [puke] [puke]
Quote from: mjk778 on January 21, 2011, 09:14:11 PM
So I finally got to see the Diavel in person today at the NY Motorcycle show and I am still not a fan. It is not attractive at all.
+1 Saw it this weekend and still wish it wasn't built.
Quote from: CDawg on January 24, 2011, 11:19:19 AM
+1 Saw it this weekend and still wish it wasn't built.
Thought the carbon edition they had up on the side of the ducati display wasnt bad, but the plain edition was ehhh. Sitting on it made it look even worse from the riders perspective. The mid 40s guido with the Ed Hardy shirt seemed to love it though. <-- true story.
Quote from: Airborne on January 27, 2011, 06:08:45 AM
Thought the carbon edition they had up on the side of the ducati display wasnt bad, but the plain edition was ehhh. Sitting on it made it look even worse from the riders perspective. The mid 40s guido with the Ed Hardy shirt seemed to love it though. <-- true story.
That's probably the customer base right there.
that is EXACTLY the customer base they are looking to grab.
Quote from: muskrat on January 22, 2011, 08:51:16 AM
yeah who thought of those red wheels? [puke] [puke] [puke] [puke] [puke]
I dig the red on white evo... Not sure why but I like white sport bikes and the red wheels and frame is just the perfect (for me) amount of *pop* on that model. It and the red m1100evo in red are my 2 bg's on my laptops. I'm really gonna have to test ride some bikes when I have the cash for the down payment.
not just the guidos, but anybody who wants ducati performance and a low seat, void of sbk ergos. This bike ain't built for those that picked the Monster or the SBK as their ideal Ducati! Seems like that concept is pretty hard to grasp around here.
www.motorcyclistonline.com%2Ffeatures%2F122_1103_2011_ducati_diavel%2Findex.html&h=344cb (//http://)
So I read this article.
of course my comments based on the article
"All I read was... the designer couldn't think of something himself so he copied everyone else and modified it."
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_1103_2011_ducati_diavel/index.html (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_1103_2011_ducati_diavel/index.html)
your linky is broken...
anyways....what I took from that article was a whole lot of what Ducati wanted them to regurgitate....which is no surprise for publications like these whom are suffering moreso than moto manufacturers...
Quote from: a m on January 27, 2011, 07:54:39 AM
not just the guidos, but anybody who wants ducati performance and a low seat, void of sbk ergos. This bike ain't built for those that picked the Monster or the SBK as their ideal Ducati! Seems like that concept is pretty hard to grasp around here.
+1
It seems some people around here are more stubborn than my 31 week pregnant fiance' and hoooooo boy is she ever. At any rate, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I like the looks of the bike and I think that different markets are going to be key for the auto industries.
Look at Ferrari and their new hatchback. It's got a new all wheel drive system, and 3 doors.... Very un-Ferrari like but....
It's still sporting a son of a pregnant doging 6.3 liter V12 that will propel it 0-60 in a blistering 3.7 seconds. That's a hell of a "grocery getter"
Look at the Porsche Panamera...
on the other end of the spectrum, companies losing market share are coincidentally also not diversifying their lineup.
cough cough harley davidson cough
Quote from: a m on January 27, 2011, 03:22:55 PM
on the other end of the spectrum, companies losing market share are coincidentally also not diversifying their lineup.
cough cough harley davidson cough
i honestly just looked for a like button. Too much facebook for me... sigh
Quote from: lazylightnin717 on January 27, 2011, 03:21:04 PM
Look at the Porsche Panamera...
exactly look at the panamera, proof that people have absolutely no taste at all and will buy any ugly thing as long as it has the right "name" attached to it.
the ferrari 4 seater is still a somewhat good looking car so that is understandable, the aston martin rapide is EXACTLY what the Panamera wished it could look like and is a great looking 4 door sports car, heck even the mercedes cls is 10x better looking of a car than the panamera.
if I wanted a 4 seater Ferrari, I would go and look at a Maserati...
if I wanted a power cruiser, Ducati or many other european nameplates wouldn't be the primary names I would look at...look at how well the BMW R1200C and R1200CLC did, and those are two VERY compotent machines made by a company who is not into the market share of where that thing should have and could have sold....I fear the Diavel WILL suffer the same fate....but I could be wrong.
maybe ducati can make a stretched out 1198 with the extended swing arms and such like they had in the custom bike build at the motorcycle show in dc with all the stretched out r1 and busa [clap]
Quote from: sbrguy on January 28, 2011, 10:05:00 AM
exactly look at the panamera, proof that people have absolutely no taste at all and will buy any ugly thing as long as it has the right "name" attached to it.
And those people may be the ones that buy the Diavel. It's about personal preference. There isn't any one bike out there that appeals to everybody. I do however, agree with you about the Panamera. [puke] ....although it IS still a Porsche
Quote from: zooom on January 28, 2011, 10:13:42 AM
if I wanted a 4 seater Ferrari, I would go and look at a Maserati...
[thumbsup] [thumbsup] [thumbsup]
Quote from: xcaptainxbloodx on January 01, 2011, 04:18:07 PM
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss116/Steve748/ducati-diavel-carbon.jpg)
From the Motorcyclist article,
"The riding position is similar to the Monster, and the handling too, though the Diavel is bigger in dimension and much more comfortable. Ducati's test department reports that this is the quickest-accelerating and best-braking bike the company has ever built-outsprinting and outbraking even the 1198-but it's certainly not a sportbike. It's a bike that defies categorization by design."
This bike gets better the more I look at it.
I'd like to see someone remove that carbon tumor air intake, somehow fit clip ons and then lower the headlight. Wouldn't take much to spice it up.
you know what...
I finally realize the issue here.
It needs an air/oil cooled motor.
take off all the extra stuff put on there to cover up the 4-V plumbing/radiators, etc... and you might have a decent looking bike.
Quote from: Raux on January 29, 2011, 08:01:31 AM
you know what...
I finally realize the issue here.
It needs an air/oil cooled motor.
take off all the extra stuff put on there to cover up the 4-V plumbing/radiators, etc... and you might have a decent looking bike.
Completely agree! Stock it looks a bit overdone but if you could strip some of the seemingly ancillary crap from it, I think it has some potential. Of course if you strip everything off of it you are probably left with a naked bike... or a Monster.
Would someone please buy one, take all the excess plastic off and post some pics?
Quote from: hihhs on January 29, 2011, 08:10:15 AM
~SNIP~
Would someone please buy one, take all the excess plastic off and post some pics?
Best I could do on short notice:
(http://www.parcbench.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/alienstatue.jpg)
Seriously....
It's going to look awful with all of the bodywork off, just like the SBK's do when you take the body off.
Quote from: Speeddog on January 29, 2011, 09:16:58 AM
Best I could do on short notice:
(http://www.parcbench.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/alienstatue.jpg)
Seriously....
It's going to look awful with all of the bodywork off, just like the SBK's do when you take the body off.
[roll]
(http://hellforleathermagazine.com/images/2009-StreetfighterS-001.jpg)
Here's a good article about it from motorcyclist.com
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_1103_2011_ducati_diavel/index.html (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_1103_2011_ducati_diavel/index.html)
interesting article
I liked the part where ducati says they were targeting the power cruiser market and attempting to create a new category of bike.............sports/cruiser.
Quote from: iRam on January 29, 2011, 10:57:14 PM
Here's a good article about it from motorcyclist.com
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_1103_2011_ducati_diavel/index.html (http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_1103_2011_ducati_diavel/index.html)
Theres so much advertising on that page my browser wont even load it...
is that author a member here?
Quote
When word first surfaced that Ducati was building a cruiser, reaction from enthusiasts was swift and almost universally unforgiving. This was called the beginning of the end for the iconic racing brand. Ducati was accused of selling out its hard-earned high-performance heritage in exchange for a slice of the tacky, trendy, substance-free cruiser pie.
Quote from: Privateer on January 30, 2011, 09:57:32 AM
is that author a member here?
front what I've seen around the web, we are far from the only one's that said that.
sat on it at the show at Javitz - if the tank was green, I was imagining "John Deere" written on the side
RAWR i'm outraged
It's growing on me.
It's not my style and I probably won't buy one, but I can see why it's a good bike.
If Ducati made scooters, would people still pregnant dog? I wouldn't buy one for myself (maybe the wife) but who cares if Ducati is trying to draw a new crowd to their brand?
My only wish is that they would come out with some different engine designs. Preferably a 400-500cc 4-valve single... they could use it on a mini-sportbike and a scrambler. If they came in around 300-320lbs from the factory, I'd buy both.
The only way Ducati could IMO come out wiht another engine is if they use it in several bikes.
BUT saying that
A Mono as a
SS
GT
Scrambler
would be cool
the problem with the Diavel, is, and the designer admits this, it's trying to be too many other bikes, yet establish its own identity. Yes, it will out handle/perform those bikes, but by trying to mimicing they screwed up something that is important to Ducati... Style.
The 999 is an important lesson for Ducati, and apparently they forgot it.
Just because YOU think it doesn't have style, doesn't mean it doesn't. I think it does have style. Am I wrong?
Quote from: ducatiz on January 30, 2011, 09:54:02 PM
It's growing on me.
It's not my style and I probably won't buy one, but I can see why it's a good bike.
If Ducati made scooters, would people still pregnant dog? I wouldn't buy one for myself (maybe the wife) but who cares if Ducati is trying to draw a new crowd to their brand?
My only wish is that they would come out with some different engine designs. Preferably a 400-500cc 4-valve single... they could use it on a mini-sportbike and a scrambler. If they came in around 300-320lbs from the factory, I'd buy both.
yeah but a scooter is a waaaay different market segment. This one is a retarded portion of OUR segment The Diavel is a douchebag.
Quote from: DucatiTorrey on January 31, 2011, 04:36:12 AM
yeah but a scooter is a waaaay different market segment. This one is a retarded portion of OUR segment The Diavel is a douchebag.
That's funny, but most of the guys I know who ride scooters regularly are douchebags. You know the type -- grown man who wears crocs... etc.... there's just something.. dishonest ... about a guy who prefers to ride with his knees together...
Scooter Crashes Into Guardrail on Mulholland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgKoXzbw13E#normal)
Quote from: Raux on January 30, 2011, 10:17:53 PM
The 999 is an important lesson for Ducati, and apparently they forgot it.
I much prefer the 999 to the newer style superbikes. Of course I also think the Tamburini's are the sexiest ever - maybe I haven't joined the new age ???
i see why they had to put the big side pods on to hide the radiators so that it wouldn't just be an oversized monster or streetfighter, but it definitely is a different look.
i think that ducati should try to focus on something really different and put the d16 derived engine into something like the diavel, the v4 would be a great engine for them to really make into a modern production bike, though the service intervals would kill people with cost. [laugh]
Quote from: muskrat on January 31, 2011, 06:29:46 AM
I much prefer the 999 to the newer style superbikes. Of course I also think the Tamburini's are the sexiest ever - maybe I haven't joined the new age ???
hey.......something we can agree upon. I've always liked the 999 and think it would be a decent collectors bike. I have a feeling down the road, history will vindicate the styling and it will be looked back upon as a very sharp looking bike.
of course, that could be more wishful thinking on my part.
yep. History has proven the 500GTL design as forward thinking and enduring
Quote from: Raux on January 04, 2011, 02:28:56 PM
actually the entire run of MH900e was sold the first day online.
ducati's marketing made that declaration. In reality, their servers crashed around 7pm pdt 31dec09. Some 15 hours later, i personally placed the reservation that fetched serial #0021.
They doubled the production run several months later.
;D Chris
I predict the Diavel will be a big seller for Ducati.
Read the 7 page spread in the March issue of Motocyclist Magazine and you will get a pretty good idea of what the Diavel is all about .
If I didn't have 3 bikes already, I would jump on the list to buy one without hesitatation after reading the Article and the Road Test.
Dolph :)
Quote from: DoubleEagle on February 01, 2011, 09:41:55 PM
I predict the Diavel will be a big seller for Ducati.
Read the 7 page spread in the March issue of Motocyclist Magazine and you will get a pretty good idea of what the Diavel is all about .
If I didn't have 3 bikes already, I would jump on the list to buy one without hesitatation after reading the Article and the Road Test.
Dolph :)
I'm snowed in and can't make it to chapters today to read motocyclist for free.................what did they say about the road test?
I happen to come across these pics this morning:
(http://www.pnwfx.net/PNWRiders/Motorcycle-Show/12122010-Seattle-WA/DSC8142/1125592114_EUGwe-XL.jpg)
(http://www.pnwfx.net/PNWRiders/Motorcycle-Show/12122010-Seattle-WA/DSC8144/1125592159_jToBp-XL.jpg)
(http://www.pnwfx.net/PNWRiders/Motorcycle-Show/12122010-Seattle-WA/DSC8147/1125592556_EJUCm-XL.jpg)
(http://www.pnwfx.net/PNWRiders/Motorcycle-Show/12122010-Seattle-WA/DSC8159/1125593402_pzUhz-XL.jpg)
(http://www.pnwfx.net/PNWRiders/Motorcycle-Show/12122010-Seattle-WA/DSC8158/1125593018_r8tBP-XL.jpg)
(http://www.pnwfx.net/PNWRiders/Motorcycle-Show/12122010-Seattle-WA/DSC8151/1125592571_yh5MU-XL.jpg)
Quote from: Monster Dave on February 02, 2011, 07:19:03 AM
I happen to come across these pics this morning:
(http://www.pnwfx.net/PNWRiders/Motorcycle-Show/12122010-Seattle-WA/DSC8142/1125592114_EUGwe-XL.jpg)
hope you wiped off your monitor after
notice the rotor carriers are machined to match the wheels?
There are some 'nice' elements of craftsmanship that can be seen in those pics.
For me, the jury is still out until I get to see one in person. I'll demo one for fun regardless when the Duc truck comes around.
perhaps when I see a modified one with flat drag bars low up front but for now that curve up over the headlight back to the bars is just too ugly to my taste.
I agree. I'd put an old school (monster-ish) round headlight on it and loose the body work on the light.
That first pic looks like a very well made model... not a real bike. Probably cause of the photographer...
Quote from: pitbull on February 02, 2011, 03:47:57 AM
I'm snowed in and can't make it to chapters today to read motocyclist for free.................what did they say about the road test?
basically they say it's not really a cruiser... more like a big standard. ducati says that it's the fastest accelerating and best braking bike they have in their lineup...
the only bike they say is close to it is a vmax... and that the huge rear tire doesnt affect handling at all. they also mention that the test rider was wheelying it ;) haha
Quote from: thought on February 02, 2011, 09:46:00 AM
..... they also mention that the test rider was wheelying it ;) haha
[evil]
Quote from: DoubleEagle on February 01, 2011, 09:41:55 PM
Read the 7 page spread in the March issue of Motocyclist Magazine and you will get a pretty good idea of what the Diavel is all about .
that article was posted here...
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=44321.msg834632#msg834632 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=44321.msg834632#msg834632)
just sayin...and it was basically regurgitated garbage as I said before...IMHO...
whoops, the comments i made before were sourced from the article from this thread:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=46136.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=46136.0)
got a motorcyclist subscription for 3 years for $13 so i read it before it got out online :)
still not that much info on it... but like i said before... they say that it basically rides like a big standard... so finally, the cruiser for people that dont want to ride a cruiser.
and truthfully... i dont mind the looks at all. i know it'll look a lot better in person, and the sheer size of it is probably going to make it look awesome.
This is an awesome photo
(http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/35780496+w750+st0/122_1103_06_o+2011_ducati_diavel_test_rider+.jpg)
You can see his concentration through the visor :) Also seeing a bike that size doing this on purpose is rather eye opening.
Quote from: Monster Dave on February 02, 2011, 08:42:30 AM
I agree. I'd put an old school (monster-ish) round headlight on it and loose the body work on the light.
[thumbsup]
Quote from: ahks on February 02, 2011, 02:01:54 PM
This is an awesome photo
~SNIP~
You can see his concentration through the visor :) Also seeing a bike that size doing this on purpose is rather eye opening.
Back wheel is locked (rear tread is sharp, front is blurred) and clutch is pulled.
[coffee]
so it's a brake slide not a power slide...
The Road Test results say that it is very comfortable , very fast, handles very good , leans 40 degrees, best build quality they have seen out of Ducati, wet Clutch, 5.3 gallon capacity, 94 lb. ft. of Torque. 162 Hp., seat height 30.3 inches, 50 mm Marzocchi Forks, 62.6 " wheel base, 3 Riding modes, no need for Fender Eliminator due to the well hidden LED Turn signals, and folding Passenger pegs w, retractable Grab Handles.
Price, $16,995 for the standard colors and $19,995 for the Carbon Fiber pieced model.
For what it's worth, the Ducati Test Rider say's it his favorite current bike to ride fast in the Italian country side.
Dolph [moto]
Quote from: Speeddog on February 02, 2011, 06:05:56 PM
Back wheel is locked (rear tread is sharp, front is blurred) and clutch is pulled.
[coffee]
2pts for a good observation! [thumbsup]
Quote from: Raux on January 30, 2011, 10:35:27 AM
front what I've seen around the web, we are far from the only one's that said that.
of course. My comment was meant tongue in cheek.
I like it. If I could afford it, I'd get one.
There are plenty of people who don't like monsters (or any naked bike, for that matter) and think they're ugly. It doesn't make them or us wrong, we just have different taste. Same with the diavel. let the bike stand on it's own merits once people get to ride them.
I think this chassis is the future. A comfortable bike that allows for all styles of riding. I do think we will see it as a starting point for an air cooled killer for $13-15,000.00. Then I will buy one.
PS The Termi set up for the Diavel is awesome.
PS The Termi set up for the Diavel is awesome.
[/quote]
+1
Is there a photo of this termi exhaust somewhere? Besides the thing in the configurator on ducati.com...
Ask and you shall recieve:
(http://www.ducatiperformance.com/images/diavel_termignoni_titanium_slip-on.jpg)
http://www.ducatiperformance.com/ducati-diavel-termignoni-titanium-slip-on-exhaust-p-138349.html (http://www.ducatiperformance.com/ducati-diavel-termignoni-titanium-slip-on-exhaust-p-138349.html)
(http://www.ducatiperformance.com/images/diavel_termignoni_titanium_slip-on-2.jpg)
...fwiw, my vote on this exhaust: [puke]
that one is pretty blah... but it's less than a grand extra for a full system that looks way better :p
(http://www.ducatiperformance.com/images/diavel_termignoni_carbon_full_exhaust.jpg)
(http://www.ducatiperformance.com/images/diavel_termignoni_carbon_full_exhaust-2.jpg)
The more I see and hear of this bike the more I'm thinking it may just be almost exactly what I want. A power cruiser that feels like a standard.
I've been torn for years over an internal dilemma of wanting something that is really rather quite comfortable to cruise in OR something that can actually take a corner. I may just have to delay and start looking at this...
Quote from: Privateer on February 02, 2011, 07:08:14 PM
There are plenty of people who don't like monsters (or any naked bike, for that matter) and think they're ugly. It doesn't make them or us wrong, we just have different taste. Same with the diavel. let the bike stand on it's own merits once people get to ride them.
kind of like ducat sbk owners who viewed the monster as "not a real ducati" in the way that boxter owners are looked at with disdain by "real porsche owners"
Quote from: ahks on February 03, 2011, 07:36:20 AM
that one is pretty blah... but it's less than a grand extra for a full system that looks way better :p
(http://www.ducatiperformance.com/images/diavel_termignoni_carbon_full_exhaust.jpg)
(http://www.ducatiperformance.com/images/diavel_termignoni_carbon_full_exhaust-2.jpg)
Oh my!! This on a new 1100 would be sick.
Quote from: ahks on February 03, 2011, 07:36:20 AM
that one is pretty blah... but it's less than a grand extra for a full system that looks way better :p
(http://www.ducatiperformance.com/images/diavel_termignoni_carbon_full_exhaust.jpg)
(http://www.ducatiperformance.com/images/diavel_termignoni_carbon_full_exhaust-2.jpg)
The more I see and hear of this bike the more I'm thinking it may just be almost exactly what I want. A power cruiser that feels like a standard.
I've been torn for years over an internal dilemma of wanting something that is really rather quite comfortable to cruise in OR something that can actually take a corner. I may just have to delay and start looking at this...
ahks,
This bike according to the Test Ride IS a bike that handles similar to a Superbike ...but has the comfort more like a sport tourer.
Dolph :)
like i said since the beginning
this bike has potential and once its customized it could be amazing
Oh my!! This on a new 1100 would be sick.
[/quote]
Hell yeah!!!
+1 Those pipes would look sweet on the 1100! They look good on the Diavel too
Quote from: mjk778 on February 03, 2011, 07:20:52 PM
+1 Those pipes would look sweet on the 1100! They look good on the Diavel too
I think you could park an 1100 inside the header. ;D
My dilemma......do I part w, a '09 BMW K 1300 GT w, 3,000 miles and loaded w, options plus a Remus slip on, for a Diavel ?
The BMW is fast, very comfortable , and surprisingly , handles great in the twisties.....almost Sportbike like.
It has 99 lb. ft. of Torque , same as my 1098 R , (of course it weighs 562 lbs. dry vs 363 lbs.for the " R " ).
It runs just fine and I love the electronically " on the fly " adjustable suspension.
I'd take a $10,000 hit from what I paid for it new ( or more) since I like the Carbon model Diavel .
If I sit on one that may be all it takes to push me over the fence.
Dolph :-\
Quote from: DoubleEagle on February 03, 2011, 08:31:29 PM
My dilemma......do I part w, a '09 BMW K 1300 GT w, 3,000 miles and loaded w, options plus a Remus slip on, for a Diavel ?
The BMW is fast, very comfortable , and surprisingly , handles great in the twisties.....almost Sportbike like.
It has 99 lb. ft. of Torque , same as my 1098 R , (of course it weighs 562 lbs. dry vs 363 lbs.for the " R " ).
It runs just fine and I love the electronically " on the fly " adjustable suspension.
I'd take a $10,000 hit from what I paid for it new ( or more) since I like the Carbon model Diavel .
If I sit on one that may be all it takes to push me over the fence.
Dolph :-\
<threadjack>
PM me if you end up putting it on the market. [thumbsup]
</threadjack>
Quote from: Monster Dave on February 02, 2011, 07:04:08 PM
2pts for a good observation! [thumbsup]
Motorcylist Columnist Aaron Frank " I'm not sure what I expected to see, but it wasn't to see Ducati's lead test rider Alessandro Valia exit the factory's back gate sideways and spewing tire smoke, then launch into a three gear power wheelie .
Reaching the opposite end of the track at almost 100 mph, he toed the rear brake and pitched the duct tape-disguised prototype into a tire-howling, full lock, supermoto-style slide."
Sound like a big , heavy Cruiser ?
Dolph :)
Quote from: DoubleEagle on February 03, 2011, 08:31:29 PM
My dilemma......do I part w, a '09 BMW K 1300 GT w, 3,000 miles and loaded w, options plus a Remus slip on, for a Diavel ?
The BMW is fast, very comfortable , and surprisingly , handles great in the twisties.....almost Sportbike like.
It has 99 lb. ft. of Torque , same as my 1098 R , (of course it weighs 562 lbs. dry vs 363 lbs.for the " R " ).
It runs just fine and I love the electronically " on the fly " adjustable suspension.
I'd take a $10,000 hit from what I paid for it new ( or more) since I like the Carbon model Diavel .
If I sit on one that may be all it takes to push me over the fence.
Dolph :-\
you could always pay it forward adn give it as a gift to me so my wife and I can enjoy the roads of Europe.
My Brother has a 2 1/2 lb. package , $100 to ship it to England ???
How much to ship a bike to Germany Jerry ?
Dolph [moto]
Quote from: DoubleEagle on February 03, 2011, 08:49:34 PM
Motorcylist Columnist Aaron Frank " I'm not sure what I expected to see, but it wasn't to see Ducati's lead test rider Alessandro Valia exit the factory's back gate sideways and spewing tire smoke, then launch into a three gear power wheelie and jizz on myself uncontrollably.
Reaching the opposite end of the track at almost 100 mph, he toed the rear brake and pitched the duct tape-disguised prototype into a tire-howling, full lock, supermoto-style slide."
you left out the funniest part of the quote.. fixed..
Quote from: DoubleEagle on February 03, 2011, 11:08:49 PM
My Brother has a 2 1/2 lb. package , $100 to ship it to England ???
How much to ship a bike to Germany Jerry ?
Dolph [moto]
less than a grand
(http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/407578_10151209053877893_331058555_n.jpg)
I'm taking full credit for this...
I posted this version a long time ago
(http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/164925_136082583115145_4126675_n.jpg)
Take off the back rest, and it isn't too bad. Makes it a much more functional bike. [thumbsup]
I'll pass on that look. [thumbsdown]
I saw the pics in a ducati email earlier today.
I think it looks much, much better.
The new hyperstrada looks sweet as well.
the nice thing about not having the money is I don't have to decide between the diavel strada, hyperstrada and multi.