A black Range Rover ran over a group of bikers in New York City during an annual street ride. After running over multiple people at the :50 second mark, he takes off only to run over another person at the 5:00 minute mark. Apparently 1 rider was killed.
http://youtu.be/wNOyDMzn2bY (http://youtu.be/wNOyDMzn2bY)
While I find these massive group rides (like ride of the century) annoying - Holy crap that Range Rover driver is nuts. :-[ Even if no one died as reported there still many counts of ADW and possibly attempted murder in that 5 minutes...
Wow
Those are both Bicyclist articles.
How many full on videos are there of it?? Did you watch it Painter, we are talking about motorcylists??
Quote from: Plumbers Crack on September 30, 2013, 07:15:01 AM
Those are both Bicyclist articles.
How many full on videos are there of it?? Did you watch it Painter, we are talking about motorcylists??
Sorry...
I'll delete my post
Someone was pregnant doging about something there in the beginning before they all stopped. I wonder what that was.
Quote from: Plumbers Crack on September 30, 2013, 07:15:01 AM
Those are both Bicyclist articles.
How many full on videos are there of it?? Did you watch it Painter, we are talking about motorcylists??
Why does it matter if it's bicycles or motors?
People are running us over.
Not sure which is worse... the moment(s) of insane malice shown by the Range Rover driver by intentionally plowing over people a couple times, or the people in the bicyclist (i'm just gonna say it) murders. Giving drugs to an unlicensed driver and letting them drive... wtf.
bad bad bad alll bad
Wow. That's crazy. Was the driver just annoyed at the holdup?
JM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on September 30, 2013, 07:43:25 AM
Wow. That's crazy. Was the driver just annoyed at the holdup?
JM
Maybe? Maybe the bikes were harassing them before the video starts. One bike white (honda?) is crowding and then cuts off and slows very close the the RR - they might make contact then. Then we cant see what's going on for a bit until the RR starts plowing over stuff.
There's a lot bad decision making in this video :-[
I have no idea how the Range rover ended up in the middle of the pack. Was he trying to get through the slow moving pack? Maybe........ Were the riders on an organized ride with an approved by the city route, escorts etc? Or were these guys just out on a big group ride and making trouble for people in cars?
In the very start of the video a white bike gets in front of the Rover and slows down quickly enough that the driver taps the rear tire of the bike. The riders then stop surround the Rover and start hitting it. The driver having his family on board did what I would have done if in fear of being drug out of my vehicle by a gang. He ran them over. IMO the riders were looking like and behaving like thugs.
At the end of the video when the Rover driver does not back up though the entire pack killing as many of the riders as possible it is fairly clear that he did not want to kill anyone. Personally the second I would have seen the pack stop behind me would be the the second I put the car in reverse and hit the gas pedal.
This was a six minute chase, where were the cops?
When I see articles like these it is no wonder some people hate on motorcyclists. There are many more but these only took a second to pull up.
http://www.wcsh6.com/video/981394176001/0/Bikers-shut-down-highway (http://www.wcsh6.com/video/981394176001/0/Bikers-shut-down-highway)
http://jalopnik.com/5980338/hundreds-of-bikers-shut-down-an-la-freeway-so-one-of-them-can-propose (http://jalopnik.com/5980338/hundreds-of-bikers-shut-down-an-la-freeway-so-one-of-them-can-propose)
http://www.bridesmidmichigan.com/main/video_post.html?ID=34 (http://www.bridesmidmichigan.com/main/video_post.html?ID=34)
http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2011/06/05/sport-bikers-shut-down-highway-do-stunts-police-can-only-watch/ (http://cyrilhuzeblog.com/2011/06/05/sport-bikers-shut-down-highway-do-stunts-police-can-only-watch/)
http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2012/05/stunt-motorcyclists-may-be-prank-calling-dallas-police-with-false-reports-of-freeway-shutdowns.html/ (http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2012/05/stunt-motorcyclists-may-be-prank-calling-dallas-police-with-false-reports-of-freeway-shutdowns.html/)
Are you sure someone was killed?
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pack-motorcyclists-chase-man-suv-attack-upper-manhattan-street-fender-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585 (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pack-motorcyclists-chase-man-suv-attack-upper-manhattan-street-fender-bender-west-side-highway-article-1.1471585)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2438620/Shocking-video-Range-Rover-crashing-bikers-surround-vehicle-annual-street-ride.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2438620/Shocking-video-Range-Rover-crashing-bikers-surround-vehicle-annual-street-ride.html)
If I was the SUV driver in that situation with my wife and child in the car, I would have done the same with how those riders were acting.
not one Ural in the mix.
just say'n.
we are a peacfull bunch.
Quote from: Skybarney on September 30, 2013, 08:04:50 AM
Were the riders on an organized ride with an approved by the city route, escorts etc?
Highly doubt it
Quote from: Skybarney on September 30, 2013, 08:04:50 AM
Or were these guys just out on a big group ride and making trouble for people in cars?
More likely IMO
Quote from: Lucumon on September 30, 2013, 08:34:36 AM
If I was the SUV driver in that situation with my wife and child in the car, I would have done the same with how those riders were acting.
+1
Quote from: Slide Panda on September 30, 2013, 09:03:00 AM
Highly doubt it
More likely IMO
Rhetorical questions..... Anytime I see a large group of external armor wearing squids I make assumptions...... ;D When I was riding through Portland I saw a large group of squids shut down the opposite lanes to play d-bag (oops I meant to stunt around).
I just wish they would stop wearing helmets......... [roll]
Quote from: Skybarney on September 30, 2013, 09:07:01 AM
Rhetorical questions..... Anytime I see a large group of external armor wearing squids I make assumptions...... ;D W
Ah...
And yeah, won't lie and say I don't make the same/similar assumptions
Any chance we can amend the title of this thread to be more accurate?
Suggestions:
1. Reasons to buy a Range Rover: the ultimate all terrain vehicle
2. Yuppie pisses off armored thugs, gets beat up
3. Reasons to pack heat in NYC
4. Range Rover Runs Over Bikers, no one dead
I've been seeing this all over the web today. So much speculation and so few facts. Sadly, not the image of bikers I want disseminated to the public (regardless of 'right' and 'wrong'). Really can only conclude:
Quote from: Slide Panda on September 30, 2013, 08:03:43 AM
There's a lot bad decision making in this video :-[
Whenever there is a mix of agression, fear, and survival, all social rules are out. Glad no one was critically injured.
[Oh, I also vote to have "1 dead" removed from title, for accuracy's sake.]
I always get my news from youtube...
Nuts.
So I'm just going to throw some points, speculation, and questions out there.
This video was edited. we can all agree. Why would one of the bikers remove the beginning (showing how this mess began) and the ending (how they assaulted the individuals in the vehicle)? I can only assume (if the original filmer did do the editing) that either they are hiding their actions that caused the event and their actions once the vehicle was cornered or this was in fact the beginning of this particular situation with this vehicle. Right now, I'm leaning toward the later and that the white bike started the escalation. It seems like a good chunk of the "group" is ahead and could care less about this car, save for a few. If I had to guess, I'd say the vehicle may have done some maneuver, such as a lane change, and one of the bikers got their panties in a bunch because "this is their road right now". As far as I can see in this video, recognizing that all I can go on is what I see, the car is driving in a very cautious manner. Obviously I'm not talking about the times that he is cornered and looking for a way out. But just look at the time when the car is running along in the right lane and there are bikers starting to come up behind and beside him, he maintains his lane.
I can't see what is happening after the the white bike slows down to intentionally cause an accident and everyone is stopped, but I can only assume that they are trying to open the vehicle door. What would I do if I was surrounded by a large group of people with poor judgement, seeking the wrong kind of thrill, and a hostile attitude? I would definitely plow through them. In fact, knowing that I would eventually be cornered in traffic, I would take an escalating amount of measures to ensure the safety of my family.
I'm curious what the police would suggest this individual do?
*I reserve the right to shift my assumptions and thoughts pending any further information on the event
Oh, and I think we can also assume there aren't any Ducatis in this group. They are at the local Starbucks.
HOLY!!!!
A lot of things were wrong irrespective of what happened prior to the start of the video. I could never understand the need to use all lanes of the highway. The group could have kept to one lane, whichever they choose and NONE of this would have even happened!
Not sure why the RR did not lock his/her door after the initial altercation and using off road capabilities on a paved road. Neither does it make sense why the cops were not called.. No one was going to get away after the RR went over the bikers the first time. There are 1ty billion street cameras along the entire stretch of that highway.
First the 12 O'Clock boys, now these guys... you know what? make the beast with two backs 'em! There I said it, they get zero sympathy from me, a mob of make the beast with two backsing squids.
I'm not defending the driver either, but if I had been in his situation, threatened and with wife and child in the car, I might have done the same. But the biker that was rear-ended should have stayed in his lane, as far as I'm concerned his actions are on the same level as the guy in this video:
Motorcycle Messes with Car, Gets Rear-ended- Online Sports (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM4_O6iQcJo#)
Quote from: theoneillusion on September 30, 2013, 01:49:57 PM
Nuts.
So I'm just going to throw some points, speculation, and questions out there.
This video was edited. we can all agree. Why would one of the bikers remove the beginning (showing how this mess began) and the ending (how they assaulted the individuals in the vehicle)? I can only assume (if the original filmer did do the editing) that either they are hiding their actions that caused the event and their actions once the vehicle was cornered or this was in fact the beginning of this particular situation with this vehicle. Right now, I'm leaning toward the later and that the white bike started the escalation. It seems like a good chunk of the "group" is ahead and could care less about this car, save for a few. If I had to guess, I'd say the vehicle may have done some maneuver, such as a lane change, and one of the bikers got their panties in a bunch because "this is their road right now". As far as I can see in this video, recognizing that all I can go on is what I see, the car is driving in a very cautious manner. Obviously I'm not talking about the times that he is cornered and looking for a way out. But just look at the time when the car is running along in the right lane and there are bikers starting to come up behind and beside him, he maintains his lane.
I can't see what is happening after the the white bike slows down to intentionally cause an accident and everyone is stopped, but I can only assume that they are trying to open the vehicle door. What would I do if I was surrounded by a large group of people with poor judgement, seeking the wrong kind of thrill, and a hostile attitude? I would definitely plow through them. In fact, knowing that I would eventually be cornered in traffic, I would take an escalating amount of measures to ensure the safety of my family.
I'm curious what the police would suggest this individual do?
*I reserve the right to shift my assumptions and thoughts pending any further information on the event
Totally agree. I don't think I would have done much different had I been the driver of the SUV. Those assholes were trying to incite something and totally got what they were asking for.
Quote from: The Mad King Pepe' on September 30, 2013, 02:44:52 PM
First the 12 O'Clock boys, now these guys... you know what? make the beast with two backs 'em! There I said it, they get zero sympathy from me, a mob of make the beast with two backsing squids.
I'm not defending the driver either, but if I had been in his situation, threatened and with wife and child in the car, I might have done the same. But the biker that was rear-ended should have stayed in his lane, as far as I'm concerned his actions are on the same level as the guy in this video:
I'm with you.
These make the beast with two backsheads act like they own the road. They block up traffic intentionally to slow it down to do tricks and other nonsense, dicking around with people. I've had to multiple times work my way through groups of morons like this on my bikes. Not friendly sorts, at least their such shitty riders normally that if they chose to chase me, I'd lose the morons in a second.
The driver most likely is an asshole. 9 out of 10 people are. But surrounded by an unruly mob of morons who have already demonstrated that they care about no one but themselves, who wouldn't panic and hit the gas to get the make the beast with two backs out of there?
make the beast with two backs everyone, burn the world. I'm going to go get a drink now....
Note to self... keep more loaded mags on hand when carrying... 17 rounds of 45ACP is apparently not enough.
Idiots like these squids p!ss me off. They give all motorcyclists a bad name. They aren't "motorcyclists". They're (*expletive deleted*). Thugs and hoodlums. Ne'er-do-wells. I'd call 'em punks, but that'd be insulting to true punks.
If that was my wife and child in the rig, you can bet I'd do whatever it took to keep 'em safe.
When kids come along, screw the Subaru. We're driving the full-size diesel 4x4 everywhere, and I'm putting a BuckStop bumper on it. Anyone on 2 wheels who messes with 7700 lbs of iron and steel... well, Darwin says "hello". [roll] I wonder how much it'd cost to have bulletproof glass added to the truck...
Just curious: this thread title started with "one dead", then "no one dead", and is now "one dead" again. Anyone have a link that confirms either way?
Quote from: 1.21GW on September 30, 2013, 05:52:32 PM
Just curious: this thread title started with "one dead", then "no one dead", and is now "one dead" again. Anyone have a link that confirms either way?
I have no link, but it depends if you quote someone or if you just click reply as to what the subject of your reply will be.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 30, 2013, 05:57:45 PM
I have no link, but it depends if you quote someone or if you just click reply as to what the subject of your reply will be.
Oooooohhh. I literally read your post 12 times before it made sense to me. After the 7th reading I thought it was a zen koan so I started thinking really hard about it and who I am and why we are here, but then my head just hurt. Eventually, I got it.
Sorry, I'm slow.
No...
I'm sorry.
It did, however, make perfect sense to me. ;D
They better be glad 'Walter' wasn't driving that Range Rover. :D
Quote from: kopfjäger on September 30, 2013, 06:41:14 PM
They better be glad 'Walter' wasn't driving that Range Rover. :D
Especially with his trunk monkey.
It's sad when one biker wishes another biker harm. No matter the situation, cagers for the majority of times are idiots.
In this instance, to say I would reverse and drive indicating that one would run over more bikers is pure craziness.
Running over a biker is insane. At the same time, pulling over a bike in front of an agitated driver is crazy.
Definitely glad they followed the cager and gave it to him. It's too bad the kid had to witness it.
Cagers are for the most part biggest danger bikers face. Cagers always win n thus the angry reaction as in this video by bikers.
Quote from: ab on September 30, 2013, 07:29:00 PM
It's sad when one biker wishes another biker harm. No matter the situation, cagers for the majority of times are idiots.
In this instance, to say I would reverse and drive indicating that one would run over more bikers is pure craziness.
Running over a biker is insane. At the same time, pulling over a bike in front of an agitated driver is crazy.
Definitely glad they followed the cager and gave it to him. It's too bad the kid had to witness it.
Cagers are for the most part biggest danger bikers face. Cagers always win n thus the angry reaction as in this video by bikers.
[roll]
They had to stop a hit'n'run and perform a citizen's arrest with a bit of beat down.
I would accept that in a court :)
Quote from: ab on September 30, 2013, 07:36:40 PM
They had to stop a hit'n'run and perform a citizen's arrest with a bit of beat down.
I would accept that in a court :)
What planet are you from?
Quote from: ab on September 30, 2013, 07:36:40 PM
They had to stop a hit'n'run and perform a citizen's arrest with a bit of beat down.
I would accept that in a court :)
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [bang] [bang]
Imagine the fear the father and mother had with a 2 yr old in the car. I really hope chargers are brought against all the bikers that broke any law.
mitt
Quote from: kopfjäger on September 30, 2013, 07:40:44 PM
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [bang] [bang]
Come on, i put a smiley there. I was being sarcastic.
Quote from: mitt on September 30, 2013, 07:48:41 PM
Imagine the fear the father and mother had with a 2 yr old in the car. I really hope chargers are brought against all the bikers that broke any law.
mitt
how about charge against the driver? he sure as hell deserves it.
Quote from: ab on September 30, 2013, 07:57:37 PM
Come on, i put a smiley there. I was being sarcastic.
Not buying it
Quote from: ab on September 30, 2013, 08:00:13 PM
how about charge against the driver? he sure as hell deserves it.
Wrong again
Quote from: ab on September 30, 2013, 08:00:13 PM
how about charge against the driver? he sure as hell deserves it.
For what?
The video clearly shows the guy on the white bike cutting him off and brake checking him.
maybe if you have a kid and wife in your car you would maybe drive a bit more safer and if you see bikers like this then take actions such as let them through and such. but no sounds like the guy had to act all tough and cool and act like "i'm not going to let anyone stop me from going where i want, i'll teach him a lesson".
if he was that afraid he should have called the cops immediately.
sorry but we all know that all the time the car driver will get away with it because in court nobody likes a motorcycle no matter how right the motorcycle was.
even in the stories in the news on this one the first thing the police say is "it was an accident". how do they know that unless they are done with the investigation, which they then say in the article they are still looking into it. they already start with the premise that the suv driver was not at fault by saying "accident" which gives people the idea that the driver had no fault at all, they should have said there was "a crash between two vehicles".
[roll]
I'll admit I haven't checked the link but I'm amazed at how many people here are cheering on a yuppie douche running over bikers in a Land Rover. At the very least *everyone* involved is an ***hole
cager needs to learn a bit of patience and let a whole slew of bikers pass through.
Quote from: kopfjäger on September 30, 2013, 08:00:43 PM
Not buying it
If a smiley emoticon doesn't convey sarcasm, then I guess I am doomed.
Quote from: Buck Naked on September 30, 2013, 08:08:56 PM
I'll admit I haven't checked the link but I'm amazed at how many people here are cheering on a yuppie douche running over bikers in a Land Rover. At the very least *everyone* involved is an ***hole
Put yourself in a car with your wife and family with a hundred assholes breaking the windows and looking to beat the shit out of you.
What next?
Quote from: Buck Naked on September 30, 2013, 08:08:56 PM
I'll admit I haven't checked the link but I'm amazed at how many people here are cheering on a yuppie douche running over bikers in a Land Rover. At the very least *everyone* involved is an ***hole
The level of shit you're talking is epic.
What started all this to begin with though? the video doesn't make that clear. And gunning your SUV through a crowd is pretty damn arbitrary. That could be someones wife or kid getting run over who had nothing to do with it.
Quote from: Slide Panda on September 30, 2013, 08:03:43 AM
There's a lot bad decision making in this video :-[
^^ This.
Quote from: Buck Naked on September 30, 2013, 08:21:15 PM
What started all this to begin with though? the video doesn't make that clear. <snip>
Exactly.
Many are calling the RR driver a yuppie douchebag based on ??? The fact he's driving a RR?
The video, as stated before, has been edited.
I don't know what precipitated this, but the driver of the car didn't run anyone over until he was forcibly stopped and approached by the guys wielding helmets.
Again, I ask if you are in your car with your wife and kid and are approached by an angry mob...what do you do to protect them?
Quote from: ducpainter on September 30, 2013, 08:29:15 PM
Exactly.
Many are calling the RR driver a yuppie douchebag based on ??? The fact he's driving a RR?
The video, as stated before, has been edited.
I don't know what precipitated this, but the driver of the car didn't run anyone over until he was forcibly stopped and approached by the guys wielding helmets.
Again, I ask if you are in your car with your wife and kid and are approached by an angry mob...what do you do to protect them?
I'd run over more than their bikes.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 30, 2013, 08:29:15 PM
Exactly.
Many are calling the RR driver a yuppie douchebag based on ??? The fact he's driving a RR?
Not entirely fair...but neither is judging an entire crew based on what kind of gear they are or aren't wearing. We all have our prejudices, born of past experiences.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 30, 2013, 08:29:15 PM
I don't know what precipitated this, but the driver of the car didn't run anyone over until he was forcibly stopped and approached by the guys wielding helmets.
It's possible he'd already been driving aggressively and clipped/injured a biker before hand.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 30, 2013, 08:29:15 PM
Again, I ask if you are in your car with your wife and kid and are approached by an angry mob...what do you do to protect them?
One thing I *wouldn't* do is go all cowboy on a huge crew of people I had a beef with if my family was going to catch collateral damage from it.
Since nobody knows what precipitated all this, all we have are assumptions. I had to be the devils advocate though because of how many people were automatically casting their lot with the driver. Surprising because cagers are *always* trying to kill us.
But If the bikers were the aggressors, then I don't blame the driver one bit.
Whole lot of ill informed opinion and massive conclusion jumping based on assumption... gleaned from 6 minutes of edited youtube footage.
Nobody here knows anything.
Quote from: ungeheuer on September 30, 2013, 08:49:33 PM
Whole lot of ill informed opinion and massive conclusion jumping based on assumption... gleaned from 6 minutes of edited youtube footage.
Nobody here knows anything.
[thumbsup]
All we know at this time is what we see in the video:
Motorcyclist brake checks Range Rover and gets rear ended. Clearly a stupid maneuver.
Range Rover hits some bikes, most likely trying to escape the mob that was terrorizing them.
Motorcycle mob chases down driver and attacks.
What we do not know:
What the Range Rover driver might have done to aggravate the mob
Beep his horn?
Cut off a bike?
Unsafe lane change
Nothing
Hit one or more of them
Other
I'm sure very few of us have never made a mistake while riding or driving that pissed someone off. Brake checking someone is wrong and, on a bike, just plain stupid. I can't be sure, but it seems like the mob was more intent on chasing down the Range Rover than attending to their friends. They also had the choice of calling the police.
I have seen mobs like this running around the city. In typical squid mob style they try to prove to each other how bad-ass they are, often totally blocking all lanes so one or more of them can stunt, lane splitting on both sides of the car at the same time and other assorted stupidity. From what I hear there is now an even bigger crack down on motorcycles in the city. Do they get the squids? NO. They get you and me.
I'll just stick with my every human in that video most likely sucks assumption.
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/look-im-a-human-cat.jpg)
Quote from: ungeheuer on September 30, 2013, 08:49:33 PM
Whole lot of ill informed opinion and massive conclusion jumping based on assumption... gleaned from 6 minutes of edited youtube footage.
Nobody here knows anything.
I do, those swarms of irresponsible, lawless non bikers riding non plated with a some stolen bikes in the mix are a scourge. I know of them, I've known some of them, they all deserve fire.
Quote from: lethe on October 01, 2013, 03:46:51 AM
I do, those swarms of irresponsible, lawless non bikers riding non plated with a some stolen bikes in the mix are a scourge. I know of them, I've known some of them, they all deserve fire.
Yeah, you're probably right. I hate swarming packs of attitude.
Execute the mothermake the beast with two backsers.
Quote from: ungeheuer on October 01, 2013, 04:22:50 AM
Yeah, you're probably right. I hate swarming packs of attitude.
Execute the mothermake the beast with two backsers.
they're far worse than mere attitude
Realistically it really might just be a small handful that are the real trouble but the pack follows their lead and those few are real bad as in get in your face and cut you for looking at them funny bad if not worse.
Quote from: lethe on October 01, 2013, 04:34:56 AM
they're far worse than mere attitude
Realistically it really might just be a small handful that are the real trouble but the pack follows their lead and those few are real bad as in get in your face and cut you for looking at them funny bad if not worse.
I see. So make an example of the few real bad mothermake the beast with two backsers and execute each of them every day for a fortnight.
Quote from: ungeheuer on October 01, 2013, 04:52:41 AM
I see. So make an example of the few real bad mothermake the beast with two backsers and execute each of them every day for a fortnight.
don't make me come there and be a bother to you
My biggest trigger is just selfish people and I hate humankind in general.
If I were smart, I'd sit and enjoy the show as the world comes apart at the seams but am stupid enough to voice opinions about it.
Good. We reached a verdict.
The Range Rover driver can be dealt with in a separate hearing by a panel of his poultry keeping peers.
But for bringing the activity which we all enjoy into disrepute - having considered all the evidence before us - we, the meritorious motorcyclists of the DMF, sentence these mothermake the beast with two backsers to be taken henceforth from this place to be seriously, completely and frequently executed.
All rise for the anthem.
machine gun fellatio - mutha fukka on a motorcycle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZGz0oyWJnks#)
I do not want to know how you know about that band. :o
In this world we learn to make assumptions. Sometimes those assumptions are based on our own experiences sometimes they are based on other peoples assumptions.
I am gonna have to assume that the man in the Rover is probably a D-bag. Easy assumption to make. I am also gonna assume that like most d-bags in Rovers he would be too scared to start problems with a large gang of thugs, especially with his family in the car.
Therefore I have to assume that whatever the guy in the Rover did was likely not bad enough to warrant a gang style attack. I am making that assumption based on the article saying that there were no significant injuries to any riders.
Had that been me and had I a firearm in the car I would have shot the guy that smashed the drivers window in the face..... Hitting someone with a helmet can kill them and IMO killing the guy that slammed his helmet through the window would have been defensible in court.
It's why I don't drive with a firearm....... I got jumped by a gang once and had I a weapon I would have killed people. I got away without injury (ran a gangster over with my truck btw) so I learned that running is always better than fighting. However that guy in the Rover was trapped by traffic and tremendously outnumbered. Time to come out shooting or time time to put the Rover in reverse and run over more people. I think the Rover driver showed tremendous restraint.
Aren't assumptions fun ;D
Quote from: lethe on October 01, 2013, 03:46:51 AM
I do, those swarms of irresponsible, lawless non bikers riding non plated with a some stolen bikes in the mix are a scourge. I know of them, I've known some of them, they all deserve fire.
Unfortunately, this is a very accurate description.
That family was at the wrong place at the wrong time.
I lived in NYC for almost 20 years and escaped just five years ago.
I saw plenty of irresponsible, dangerous driving -- people who though they owned the road, or that they had a right not to be passed or cut off.
If that Range Rover driver hit someone, then he should have immediately called the police and dealt with it. "Swarms" or no swarms.
By driving off, he created the reasonable assumption that he did it on purpose or that he didn't care.
From what I could see, he got hemmed in by a bunch of bikers AFTER he had run over someone and then drove off.
Hit and run deaths are very common in NYC. Just google "Nyc hit and run death."
The bikers were wrong for swarming the streets and challenging people (which is what looks like led to the original hit) but the driver was wrong for not just pulling over and letting them pass. What's the loss? Ego? You had your wife and 2 year old child in the car -- get them out of danger! No one has a right to the road. Let the police deal with it.
Quote from: ducatiz on October 01, 2013, 07:24:51 AM
...the driver was wrong for not just pulling over and letting them pass...
Bwahahahahahahhahahahahahaha you think he had a choice with the swarm? My guess is that they passed him from both sides and he couldn't pull over.
Further, to the gentlemen who say, "Well, I didn't watch the video, but that RR guy was an asshole": watch and please re-submit your comments.
http://nypost.com/2013/10/01/cops-bust-bike-thug/?utm_source=SFnewyorkpost&utm_medium=SFnewyorkpost (http://nypost.com/2013/10/01/cops-bust-bike-thug/?utm_source=SFnewyorkpost&utm_medium=SFnewyorkpost)
Quote from: Lucumon on October 01, 2013, 07:36:45 AM
Bwahahahahahahhahahahahahaha you think he had a choice with the swarm? My guess is that they passed him from both sides and he couldn't pull over.
Further, to the gentlemen who say, "Well, I didn't watch the video, but that RR guy was an asshole": watch and please re-submit your comments.
He had a choice when the biker was playing chicken with him before he actually hit anyone.
The NY post showed video of the biker that was originally hit doing a stoppie in front of the RR.
I would have pulled over before hitting someone.
Quote from: Buck Naked on September 30, 2013, 09:07:30 PM
I'll just stick with my every human in that video most likely sucks assumption.
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/look-im-a-human-cat.jpg)
^ this. [laugh]
And: put the moto hooligans in front of a punkin' chunkin' firing squad and be done with it.
Playing devil's advocate: I'm curious why it's an easy assumption that the vehicle driver is a d-bag?
Quote from: Skybarney on October 01, 2013, 06:29:04 AM
I am gonna have to assume that the man in the Rover is probably a D-bag. Easy assumption to make.
Quote from: ducatiz on October 01, 2013, 07:53:12 AM
He had a choice when the biker was playing chicken with him before he actually hit anyone.
The NY post showed video of the biker that was originally hit doing a stoppie in front of the RR.
I would have pulled over before hitting someone.
...and has been already stated...
plenty of bad decision making going on.
Quote from: ducpainter on October 01, 2013, 07:55:34 AM
...and has been already stated...
plenty of bad decision making going on.
yup, but why would i go back and read 6 pages of bickering and phallus grabbing? [laugh]
This is what the vehicle driver should have done: highway sing-along. ;D
HIGHWAY SING-A-LONG: Build Me Up Buttercup Edition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fYqe3QeOqQ#)
Quote from: ducpainter on October 01, 2013, 07:55:34 AM
...and has been already stated...
plenty of bad decision making going on.
including prior to the incident
criminal record info of some of the swarm is starting to surface
yeah, fine group of guys just having a fun time [roll]
Quote from: ducatiz on October 01, 2013, 07:56:55 AM
yup, but why would i go back and read 6 pages of bickering and phallus grabbing? [laugh]
or listen to testimony? :P
j/k 'Tiz.
Unless the police figure out who the helmet slammers were nothing will ever really come of this...
and no one will ever know anything close to the truth about what really happened.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/01/new-york-man-celebrating-first-anniversary-with-wife-child-left-for-dead-after/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/01/new-york-man-celebrating-first-anniversary-with-wife-child-left-for-dead-after/)
Sounds like the guy was out with his wife and daughter, celebrating their anniversary.
Sad story.
What a bunch of thugs.
ABC follow up coverage
http://abcnews.go.com/US/nyc-motorcycle-attack-biker-arrested-cops-search/story?id=20430576 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/nyc-motorcycle-attack-biker-arrested-cops-search/story?id=20430576)
Arrests being made on the bikers who attacked the RR driver.
"Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said Monday that Lien would not face charges for hitting bikers, including Mieses, as he fled."
Well, thoughts? Mieses is evidently in critical condition and may be a paraplegic after either helping a fallen biker or being one of the thugs that slashed the RRs tires...
Quote from: Lucumon on October 01, 2013, 08:32:58 AM
"Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said Monday that Lien would not face charges for hitting bikers, including Mieses, as he fled."
Well, thoughts? Mieses is evidently in critical condition and may be a paraplegic after either helping a fallen biker or being one of the thugs that slashed the RRs tires...
He shouldn't have been on the bike to begin with. Seems like he must be a nice guy though.
arrested this past May:
Arrest: Edwin Mieses Jr., 32, of 478 Riverside Drive, Lawrence, operating a motor vehicle with a revoked license, subsequent offense, Haverhill Street, 1:48 p.m.
Quote from: lethe on October 01, 2013, 08:38:59 AM
He shouldn't have been on the bike to begin with. Seems like he must be a nice guy though.
arrested this past May:
Arrest: Edwin Mieses Jr., 32, of 478 Riverside Drive, Lawrence, operating a motor vehicle with a revoked license, subsequent offense, Haverhill Street, 1:48 p.m.
I am sure he put the check in the mail to pay the fine. There was probably some mix up at the BMV and he should have had his license. That is always the case. I've heard that story a million times from people with suspended licenses.
Quote from: lethe on October 01, 2013, 08:38:59 AM
He shouldn't have been on the bike to begin with. Seems like he must be a nice guy though.
arrested this past May:
Arrest: Edwin Mieses Jr., 32, of 478 Riverside Drive, Lawrence, operating a motor vehicle with a revoked license, subsequent offense, Haverhill Street, 1:48 p.m.
Yeah man...criminal traffic offense...obviously that dude deserves to be set on fire. [roll]
I watched it all. The RR driver is still a pos...and so are all the "bikers". Anyone who has to roll with a gang like that is typically a punk. Still not gonna wish fire or death on em.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/us/new-york-bikers-road-rage-video/index.html?c=homepage-t (http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/us/new-york-bikers-road-rage-video/index.html?c=homepage-t)
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/10/the-footage-that-nyc-bikers-didn-want.html (http://www.carscoops.com/2013/10/the-footage-that-nyc-bikers-didn-want.html)
According to cnn article the rr hit and injured a rider, stopped, and then was surrounded by riders hitting his vehicle and slashing his tires.
Wife and kid in the car? I wouldn't have waited for the cops to show up either.
How the original accident happened I'm sure had nothing to do with the way the group was riding. [roll]
Defending the actions of the riders is insane.
(http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x34/jakeketchmark/12D6CE70-E89A-4A69-869B-066B02A81EFB-2152-000003371C61A52E_zpsa5f62cba.jpg)
Passenger window and tailgate window smashed. Somebody opening the back door, assuming the kid is in the back, wtf.
Front tire is completely gone. Probably the reason he got off the highway. Also notice several people including what appears to be a bystander with an iPad recording the beating. :-\ make the beast with two backsing sick.
Quote from: minnesotamonster on October 01, 2013, 09:03:22 AM
According to cnn article the rr hit and injured a rider, stopped, and then was surrounded by riders hitting his vehicle and slashing his tires.
Not shocking, there's some conflicting reports.
ABC reports that Cruz - the brake checker wasn't the one with the broken leg - but a fellow named "Edwin Mieses"
From ABC:
"The SUV's driver, Alexian Lien, was driving northbound on Manhattan's West Side Highway with his wife and child when he was surrounded by motorcyclists on a ride through New York. The bikers slowed down, and Cruz allegedly cut in front of Lien's Range Rover and slowed down abruptly.
Lien's Range Rover then bumped into Cruz's bike. The motorcyclists then began yelling and gesturing at Lien, causing him to take off at a high speed away from the group. As he accelerated, Lien barreled through the group, hitting three bikers, one of whom was hospitalized.
Police said the hospitalized biker, Edwin Mieses, suffered a broken leg, but friends who set up a Facebook page for him said that Mieses was injured more seriously and is in a coma from the accident. "
The second the back door was opened with my kid in the car would be the second someone died..... No one has a right to endanger a kid in the car or the mans wife. Good on the cops for putting the bikers in jail. Sorry for typecasting here but look at the idiots in the picture surrounding the car. THUGS though and through.
These are little more than street gangs with street bikes. Toss in the 12:00 boys and it begins to look like a Mad Max movie is being filmed on the streets. Makes one wonder how far it is going to go. Clockwork Orange and Mad Max and Idiocracy all rolled into one. Sad really :(
The bikers really are looking more and more like scumvags. Still don't care for how Mr SUV handled himself but I find anyone who finds their courage in a pack of colors/uniforms/Greek letters/whatever completely contemptible. Black sheep for life yo.
Quote from: Skybarney on October 01, 2013, 09:50:18 AM
The second the back door was opened with my kid in the car would be the second someone died..... No one has a right to endanger a kid in the car or the mans wife. Good on the cops for putting the bikers in jail. Sorry for typecasting here but look at the idiots in the picture surrounding the car. THUGS though and through.
These are little more than street gangs with street bikes. Toss in the 12:00 boys and it begins to look like a Mad Max movie is being filmed on the streets. Makes one wonder how far it is going to go. Clockwork Orange and Mad Max and Idiocracy all rolled into one. Sad really :(
^^ This.
In my earlier post, please do not misread: I make no assumptions about the decency of the RR driver. But, douche or not, as soon as his family was threatened, all bets were off.
If hoodlums surround and threaten my family because I couldn't stop my 7000-lb rig in time for one of their dumba$$ stunts, someone is gonna end up dead or seriously wounded. God help anyone (other than law enforcement) that tries to force open my car door while I'm in it.
Human beings understand reason, compassion, dignity. Predators understand strength.
Quote from: duc_fan on October 01, 2013, 12:35:56 PM
.....Predators understand strength. forceable opposition
slight modification for truth...
This whole thing really sucks. Makes me sad.
Follow Up - Range Rover Runs Over NYC Bikers. Minutes before Incident (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLIFpSpVP1w&noredirect=1#)
these are not bikers but thugs on 2 wheels....
Regardless what you name people like this, if you ride like they do(did) and get hurt (no matter the circumstances) it's your fault and deserve whatever you happen to get.
I feel especially bad for the kid.
It made me a bit sick to see the guy with his Ipad out videotaping this rather than helping....too many people stand by and watch things like this go down rather than helping.
Something good from this,
http://bikerspost.com/forums/topic/883/biker-arrested-for-starting-nyc (http://bikerspost.com/forums/topic/883/biker-arrested-for-starting-nyc)
Quote from: ducatiz on October 01, 2013, 07:24:51 AMNo one has a right to the road. Let the police deal with it.
Sorry ducatiz, but I'm going to have to disagree with you, vehemently on this point.
Anyone who has a valid drivers license, valid registration, and valid insurance has a right to the piece of road they are driving on.
I would bet at least 50% of the motorcyclists in that group do not have any or all of those 3 items that gives every vehicle operator legal right to the road their vehicle is traveling on.
And finally, unless the driver of the Range Rover could find a nearby Police Precinct, the chances of him finding help were non-existent.
Even if he did call the cops, with that many motorcycles blocking the road, how in the world would the cops get up front in order to help the driver without having to run over the motorcyclists themselves?
BC.
Quote from: Bladecutter on October 01, 2013, 04:22:34 PM
And finally, unless the driver of the Range Rover could find a nearby Police Precinct dounut shop, the chances of him finding help were non-existent.
Fixed it for ya ;)
Quote from: Bladecutter on October 01, 2013, 04:22:34 PMAnyone who has a valid drivers license, valid registration, and valid insurance has a right to the piece of road they are driving on.
Sorry Bladecutter, but I'm going to have to disagree with you, vehemently on this point.
Meeting the legal criteria allows a driver the right to access and legally
share the public roads system. It does not bestow any
right to the piece of road they are driving on.
Riding in the apparently aggressive, threatening and lawless manner displayed by those on motorcycles in this video clip isn't legal
regardless of what prior legal minimums they do or do not comply with.
But last time I looked driving your SUV over another road user (even a road abuser, even a scumbag, even a lawless, aggressive mothermake the beast with two backser with no
right to be there) also falls outside of your obligation to legal road usage within the right provided by holding..... valid drivers license, valid registration, and valid insurance.
Quote from: Bladecutter on October 01, 2013, 04:22:34 PMI would bet at least 50% of the motorcyclists in that group do not have any or all of those 3 items that gives every vehicle operator legal right to [share] the road their vehicle is traveling on.
You could very well be be right here though [thumbsup].
Or wrong.
That a proportion of these morons may have no legal right to be there in the first place is a separate law enforcement issue.
Quote from: Bladecutter on October 01, 2013, 04:22:34 PMEven if he did call the cops, with that many motorcycles blocking the road, how in the world would the cops get up front in order to help the driver without having to run over the motorcyclists themselves?
[roll]
What do you know? You drive upside down.
Quote from: DRKWNG on October 01, 2013, 05:23:55 PM
What do you know? You drive upside down.
Well, that gets cancelled out by driving on the wrong side of the road.
:)
Quote from: DRKWNG on October 01, 2013, 05:23:55 PM
What do you know? You drive upside down.
But I do it in a courteous manner in accordance with the law. Honest officer ;D.
Quote from: Speeddog on October 01, 2013, 05:27:03 PM
Well, that gets cancelled out by driving on the wrong side of the road.
:)
We all drive on the wrong side of the road to avoid confusion.
;D
There were different statements from [leo], one that the group never requested for permission to conduct the ride; and another that they requested but were denied.
Whichever is true, it is pretty clear that the NYPD was "aware" of a possibility of a massive ride taking place. I wouldn't expect them to shut it down, but if they had the information, and the fact that there were some 'incidents' last year; I don't understand why was there not some LEO presence along the route
I'm thinking that there's more to this than just what we saw. The camera was turned on at the moment it was for a reason, my opinion is that the very beginning of the incident was not seen. I'm hoping one of those guys had a gopro running continuously and video'd everything.
Quote from: GreasySnipe on October 01, 2013, 05:53:18 PM
I'm thinking that there's more to this than just what we saw. The camera was turned on at the moment it was for a reason, my opinion is that the very beginning of the incident was not seen. I'm hoping one of those guys had a gopro running continuously and video'd everything.
oh there is tons of video
they even tried deleting it but it was too late and it is all over the place now
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i)
=3cd_1380579664
the above link disappears for some reason when it is together, cut and paste the two halves together in your browser
check out the second to the bottom video first for the quickest idea of how nice this group is
I love how they have a few quads riding with them on the streets.
Quote from: Cody on October 01, 2013, 06:39:55 PM
I love how they have a few quads riding with them on the streets.
They might be the 12 o'clock boys. [laugh]
It's interesting how some actions I do alone look so much more sinister when performed en masse.
Quote from: ungeheuer on October 01, 2013, 05:08:27 PM
But last time I looked driving your SUV over another road user (even a road abuser, even a scumbag, even a lawless, aggressive mothermake the beast with two backser with no right to be there) also falls outside of your obligation to legal road usage within the right provided by holding..... valid drivers license, valid registration, and valid insurance.
Did you forget about the SUV being vandalized, and the multiple people attempting to assault the SUV driver? His driving credentials may not give him the right to run someone over, but his right to defend himself does.
The dude that got ran over wouldn't have if he didn't put himself in that position. He's no more a victim than a burglar who gets shot by the homeowner he was trying to rob.
Quote from: KnightofNi on October 01, 2013, 07:13:52 PM
It's interesting how some actions I do alone look so much more sinister when performed en masse.
Smashed windows out and dragged someone out of their car and beat them up have you? :D
Quote from: kopfjäger on October 01, 2013, 07:38:21 PM
Smashed windows out and dragged someone out of their car and beat them up have you? :D
I've broken some mirrors and dented some quarter panels, but I have not broken windows or drug someone out of their car.
But that's not important right now. I mean lane splitting and using the sidewalk. (sidewalk usage was to park)
Quote from: KnightofNi on October 01, 2013, 07:51:45 PM
I've broken some mirrors and dented some quarter panels, but I have not broken windows or drug someone out of their car.
But that's not important right now. I mean lane splitting and using the sidewalk. (sidewalk usage was to park)
[thumbsup]
I would have rammed into the first guy that crossed the double yellow. I need a new paint job on my front bumper ;)
Quote from: sgollapalle on October 01, 2013, 07:56:28 PM
I would have rammed into the first guy that crossed the double yellow. I need a new paint job on my front bumper ;)
You would intentionally run into someone on a bike knowing what could happen because he's on the wrong side of the road?
Ohh, there's a smiley, it's a joke.
Quote from: KnightofNi on October 01, 2013, 08:18:11 PM
You would intentionally run into someone on a bike knowing what could happen because he's on the wrong side of the road?
Ohh, there's a smiley, it's a joke.
I kidd! I would never do that to a fellow biker.
The point being, its one thing to cross the double yellow when there is no oncoming traffic; and a whole another level of stupidity to ride head on into traffic. Guess he was thinking he was Angelina Jolie!
Time to lock this thread down..............
Quote from: Triple J on October 01, 2013, 07:36:42 PM
Did you forget about the SUV being vandalized, and the multiple people attempting to assault the SUV driver?
Forget? Not at all.
I already suggested the mothermake the beast with two backsers be dealt with....
Quote from: ungeheuer on October 01, 2013, 04:22:50 AM
Yeah, you're probably right. I hate swarming packs of attitude.
Execute the mothermake the beast with two backsers.
Quote from: lethe on October 01, 2013, 04:34:56 AM
they're far worse than mere attitude
Realistically it really might just be a small handful that are the real trouble but the pack follows their lead and those few are real bad as in get in your face and cut you for looking at them funny bad if not worse.
Quote from: ungeheuer on October 01, 2013, 04:52:41 AM
I see. So make an example of the few real bad mothermake the beast with two backsers and execute each of them every day for a fortnight.
;D
no, these guys were great people
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/10/01/lawrence-man-seriously-injured-nyc-incident-involving-suv-and-motorcyclists/jHju3V1xAOsdF6Q2vT8BaL/story.html (http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/10/01/lawrence-man-seriously-injured-nyc-incident-involving-suv-and-motorcyclists/jHju3V1xAOsdF6Q2vT8BaL/story.html)
Quote:
Edwin “Jay†Mieses Jr., 32, who was riding one of dozens of motorcycles on the Henry Hudson Parkway Sunday afternoon, sustained two broken legs after apparently being run over by the SUV, police said. He remained in critical condition Tuesday at St. Luke’s Hospital in New York City.
And...
Though Mieses is a Massachusetts resident, he has never had a valid Massachusetts driver’s license for a passenger vehicle and has never applied for a motorcycle license, the Registry of Motor Vehicles said.
Registry records show that Mieses applied for a learner’s permit in 1999 and 2000, but that he never obtained a full license because he failed to pay fines imposed after he was ticketed for speeding in Lawrence in 1999. His last contact with the Registry was in 2001, when he obtained an identification card, registry records show.
Since 1999, he has been ticketed by police 16 times, in Lawrence, Methuen, Roxbury, Andover, and New Hampshire, according to registry records.
In June, the Registry notified the National Driver Register that Mieses was a habitual traffic offender whose right to drive in Massachusetts was revoked until 2017, records show.
and don't forget, he was apparently "helping" his fellow downed rider at the time !!!
Quote from: lethe on October 02, 2013, 07:42:18 AM
no, these guys were great people
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/10/01/lawrence-man-seriously-injured-nyc-incident-involving-suv-and-motorcyclists/jHju3V1xAOsdF6Q2vT8BaL/story.html (http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/10/01/lawrence-man-seriously-injured-nyc-incident-involving-suv-and-motorcyclists/jHju3V1xAOsdF6Q2vT8BaL/story.html)
Quote:
Edwin “Jay†Mieses Jr., 32, who was riding one of dozens of motorcycles on the Henry Hudson Parkway Sunday afternoon, sustained two broken legs after apparently being run over by the SUV, police said. He remained in critical condition Tuesday at St. Luke’s Hospital in New York City.
And...
Though Mieses is a Massachusetts resident, he has never had a valid Massachusetts driver’s license for a passenger vehicle and has never applied for a motorcycle license, the Registry of Motor Vehicles said.
Registry records show that Mieses applied for a learner’s permit in 1999 and 2000, but that he never obtained a full license because he failed to pay fines imposed after he was ticketed for speeding in Lawrence in 1999. His last contact with the Registry was in 2001, when he obtained an identification card, registry records show.
Since 1999, he has been ticketed by police 16 times, in Lawrence, Methuen, Roxbury, Andover, and New Hampshire, according to registry records.
In June, the Registry notified the National Driver Register that Mieses was a habitual traffic offender whose right to drive in Massachusetts was revoked until 2017, records show.
None of this has anything to do with whether or not he is "good people" and/or "deserved" what he got.
Quote from: Buck Naked on October 02, 2013, 07:58:11 AM
None of this has anything to do with whether or not he is "good people" and/or "deserved" what he got.
you mean his track record of disregard of the law doesn't show what kind of character or morality he is more than likely to be fortifide with in terms of his "goodness"....I'll grant you the "deserved" part, unless it can be proven exactly why he was off of his bike at the time he got run over....
Quote from: zooom on October 02, 2013, 08:01:29 AM
you mean his track record of disregard of the law doesn't show what kind of character or morality he is more than likely to be fortifide with in terms of his "goodness"....I'll grant you the "deserved" part, unless it can be proven exactly why he was off of his bike at the time he got run over....
Unless there is testimony from people who actually know him that say's he's an abuser, a thief, etc then no, his history of traffic violations mean absolutely nothing to me. You're free to feel otherwise but that's a pretty blithe way of thinking IMO. Things are always more complex than they seem...and if you're going to use his rap sheet to damn the guy maybe it's worth noting that as easy as it is to dig up dirt on someone in today's information era, Lethe was unable to find a single crime of "moral turpitude" (rape, assault, drug dealing, etc). I'll bet there's more than a few of those who drive like Mr. Rogers.
See what the bikers didn't want you to see here... (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3cd_1380579664)
Apparently, some of you people are ignoring that these douchenozzles were solely responsible for the actions that lead up to and include the SUV driver trying to escape harm with his family.
Thing that gets me, and I really do hope the guy that got run over pulls through OK, is all the people who are wanting the SUV driver's head. Fact is, you eff with me and my family to the point where I feel our lives are in danger, I am fairly certain that I am going to run you over too.
Quote from: Buck Naked on October 02, 2013, 08:23:42 AM
Unless there is testimony from people who actually know him that say's he's an abuser, a thief, etc then no, his history of traffic violations mean absolutely nothing to me. You're free to feel otherwise but that's a pretty blithe way of thinking IMO. Things are always more complex than they seem...and if you're going to use his rap sheet to damn the guy maybe it's worth noting that as easy as it is to dig up dirt on someone in today's information era, Lethe was unable to find a single crime of "moral turpitude" (rape, assault, drug dealing, etc). I'll bet there's more than a few of those who drive like Mr. Rogers.
I haven't even bothered looking for anything. This info, the other videos from that day etc, are making themselves easily available.
Deeds are some indication of character as well as the company you keep.
Without a doubt, there are criminals in that group of the level you speak. And a fair portion of those bikes and quads are stolen.
The behavior shown in the main video and even more so in the other videos shows a blatant disregard for anyone else's right to be on the road and their safety with bikes blowing down the wrong side of the road weaving through moving oncoming traffic among other things. Any one of us here in no way can claim to be a saint but each of these morons does more in 10 minutes than the worst of us does in a lifetime of riding plus if I speed or ride a little stupid now and again, it is predominately in cases where the only one that can get potentially hurt is me.
I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are very few good guys there, if any. Those are supposed adults that have less regard for others than the biggest dickhead of a teenager that you personally know of.
http://www.andoverps.net/police/files/logs/ablogmay13.pdf (http://www.andoverps.net/police/files/logs/ablogmay13.pdf)
OUI, assault and battery, possession on class A and E, a warrant...this guy is pretty scrummy.
I wonder what happened before that video. I'm willing to be the guy in the RR did something stupid before the vid to set those squid/moron "bikers" off. They shouldn't have slashed his tires... Things might have worked out differently if they didn't slash his tires.
Being trapped in a swarm of these "bikers" is bad enough but given that his family was in the car and then they start slashing his tires? The whole thing is just so disappointing. A little tolerance would have gone a long way here [bang]
Are we not eliminating the "1 dead" from the title because we expect this to be so the near future?
Also, nice to see the NYC DA's office allows people to destroy property without fear of prosecution: http://nypost.com/2013/10/02/da-wont-charge-bike-assault-thug-in-suv-beating/ (http://nypost.com/2013/10/02/da-wont-charge-bike-assault-thug-in-suv-beating/)
Everyday something comes out of that city that makes me happy I moved away.
Class act.
Not sure if this is really the same group in the link below but stuff like this is pretty common in NYC and surrounding areas especially during the summer. It's at best a nuisance and at its worst is dangerous to riders, drivers and pedestrians.
The RR driver probably had no idea what was going on and probably didn't expect the riders were stopping traffic to race or stunt. These riders are all not likely criminals but they are idiots for associating with this type of group riding. One can't feel too sorry for the injuries caused by the SUV because dangerous behavior tends to have serious consequences.
From the reports I've read, the driver stopped and took off only after riders started to hit his car. Good for him for protecting his family. Unfortunately he didn't go straight up the highway to the toll where cops are stationed.
These type of riders are dangerous and unfortunately hard to stop bc the police are usually not allowed to engage. And self policing does not look practiced in these types of groups. As a motorcycle rider mainly for commuting I get worried that the image of these asshats is what people think when they see me on my monster. NYC cagers are a scary lot and seem to practice a general disregard for everyone and hopefully the rage felt over this incident will not be taken out on regular riders.
http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-footage-that-the-nyc-bikers-didnt-want-you-to-see-1435594427 (http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-footage-that-the-nyc-bikers-didnt-want-you-to-see-1435594427)
Quote from: Buck Naked on October 02, 2013, 08:23:42 AM
Unless there is testimony from people who actually know him that say's he's an abuser, a thief, etc then no, his history of traffic violations mean absolutely nothing to me. You're free to feel otherwise but that's a pretty blithe way of thinking IMO. Things are always more complex than they seem...and if you're going to use his rap sheet to damn the guy maybe it's worth noting that as easy as it is to dig up dirt on someone in today's information era, Lethe was unable to find a single crime of "moral turpitude" (rape, assault, drug dealing, etc). I'll bet there's more than a few of those who drive like Mr. Rogers.
Traffic violations individually also mean nothing to me. His record as a whole does. It shows a clear disregard for the laws that regulate the driving safety of the public. So when you have a situation where you need to determine if this suspect was likely involved in illegal activity that endangered the safety of others drivers you would of course add his driving history into the equation.
Does the guy deserve to be run over because he has speeding tickets on his record? Of course not. Does he deserve to be run over when he is part of a mob that is threatening great bodily harm to a man, his wife and child and he is blocking their path of escape? Absolutely. It matters not if he got off his bike to "help", he's part of the mob, he in the roadway illegally on foot, and he's in the way.
It's impossible to look at all the available information and conclude anything but the moto riders brought all this on themselves and should be held liable both criminally and civilly for their actions.
Quote from: Buck Naked on October 02, 2013, 08:23:42 AM
[snip]...his history of traffic violations mean absolutely nothing to me. You're free to feel otherwise....[/snip]
I feel otherwise.
We're all here pontificating on the wrongs portrayed in some youtube video of outrageously make the beast with two backsing BAD road behaviour... and YOU don't think the extensive history of dismake the beast with two backsingregard for road traffic regulation and licencing requirements says anything at all about a particular individual's attitude to their obligations to society??! [bang] [bang]
It says to me that the guy has absolute disregard.... he has no licence... he's offended so frequently that he's not gonna be granted any licence.... and HE DOESN'T GIVE A make the beast with two backs. He's gonna ride anyway. And when he does ride, he can ride however he make the beast with two backsing likes... coz even if they catch him... he has nothing to lose. They can't ban him from driving/riding any more than he apparently already is. Clearly the only way to keep roads safe from his kind of blatant disregard is to remove him and his like from society.
Quote from: Buck Naked on October 02, 2013, 08:23:42 AM[snip]Things are always more complex than they seem...[/snip]
Enlighten me as to the complexities that lead to becoming above the law...
[popcorn]
Quote from: ungeheuer on October 02, 2013, 02:48:01 PM
It says to me that the guy has absolute disregard.... he has no license... he's offended so frequently that he's not gonna be granted any license.... and HE DOESN'T GIVE A make the beast with two backs. He's gonna ride anyway. And when he does ride, he can ride however he make the beast with two backsing likes... because even if they catch him... he has nothing to lose. They can't ban him from driving/riding any more than he apparently already is. Clearly the only way to keep roads safe from his kind of blatant disregard is to remove him and his like from society.
Enlighten me as to the complexities that lead to becoming above the law...
[popcorn]
Or, run him over with an SUV.
He can no longer ride a motorcycle, legally or illegally.
Not now, or in 2017 when he "might" be able to get his license back from the state of MA.
Sorry if it sounds cold, but he and a heck of a lot of the other people involved had no right to be on the road in the first place, and they all knew it.
BC.
Quote from: hbliam on October 02, 2013, 02:37:18 PM
Traffic violations individually also mean nothing to me. His record as a whole does. It shows a clear disregard for the laws that regulate the driving safety of the public. So when you have a situation where you need to determine if this suspect was likely involved in illegal activity that endangered the safety of others drivers you would of course add his driving history into the equation.
Does the guy deserve to be run over because he has speeding tickets on his record? Of course not. Does he deserve to be run over when he is part of a mob that is threatening great bodily harm to a man, his wife and child and he is blocking their path of escape? Absolutely. It matters not if he got off his bike to "help", he's part of the mob, he in the roadway illegally on foot, and he's in the way.
It's impossible to look at all the available information and conclude anything but the moto riders brought all this on themselves and should be held liable both criminally and civilly for their actions.
THIS.
Quote from: ungeheuer on October 02, 2013, 02:48:01 PM
<snip>
Enlighten me as to the complexities that lead to becoming above the law...
[popcorn]
What? You didn't get George Zimmerman coverage down under?
??? :P [roll]
I can hear the tumblers rattling.
[popcorn]
Quote from: Pedro-bot on October 02, 2013, 04:31:29 PM
What? You didn't get George Zimmerman coverage down under?
??? :P [roll]
If he rode a motorcycle like a crazed hooligan, disqualified from doing so and in flagrant disregard for the law then I'd suggest he be dealt with by the justice system accordingly.
And if he drove his Range Rover over a disqualified hooligan illegally riding a motorcycle in crazed disregard for the law, I'd suggest he be dealt with by the justice system accordingly.
Quote from: ungeheuer on October 02, 2013, 04:57:48 PM
If he rode a motorcycle like a crazed hooligan, disqualified from doing so and in flagrant disregard for the law then I'd suggest he be dealt with by the justice system accordingly.
And if he drove his Range Rover over a disqualified hooligan illegally riding a motorcycle in crazed disregard for the law, I'd suggest he be dealt with by the justice system accordingly.
So was that a yes or a no?
[popcorn]
Quote from: Pedro-bot on October 02, 2013, 05:27:56 PM
So was that a yes or a no?
[popcorn]
It was neither.
I like the DMF, and your question leads down a path I'm not prepared to go :-*
This was your question.
Quote from: ungeheuer on October 02, 2013, 02:48:01 PM
Enlighten me as to the complexities that lead to becoming above the law...
[popcorn]
This was mine.
Quote from: Pedro-bot on October 02, 2013, 04:31:29 PM
What? You didn't get George Zimmerman coverage down under?
??? :P [roll]
Quote from: ungeheuer on October 02, 2013, 06:28:44 PM
It was neither.
I like the DMF, and your question leads down a path I'm not prepared to go :-*
I'm not bating you.
Just too lazy to explain the complexities in detail.
But let me give it a shot anyways.
Here's the parallel I was drawing.
The Martin and Zimmerman was/is a fascinating legal case.
It's anecdotal evidence that there in fact are situations that lead to persons acting "above the law."
Did Zimmerman make Martin feel harassed, threatened or fearful by following him? Did he feel his life was in jeopardy.
If you watched that case, the defense for Zimmerman presented evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman.
At what point does the aggressor become the victim? Was Zimmerman even an aggressor even to begin with?
These are all questions that were raised in that trial.
Complexities.
I think much of the same basic questions go unanswered in this SUV vs a group of disorderly motorcyclists. A lot is still unknown. Who was the aggressor? The guy getting crushed by the 4,000lb $70k SUV?
There's too many people out there pulling out that "my life was threatened" card and expecting everyone to take them at their word.
Until we know ALL the facts, we're just speculating.
And yes, I'm including myself in that lot.
My only reason for posting is that it irritates me when I read people expressing opinion dressed as fact.
And then pissing on anyone that questions their logic.
And I like the DMF too.
But I don't like :-* from strangers. So please keep your :-* to ungeheuerself.
I am pleased to see this thread remain civil and respectful.
Quote from: Pedro-bot on October 02, 2013, 07:34:33 PM
This was your question.
This was mine.
I'm not bating you.
Just too lazy to explain the complexities in detail.
But let me give it a shot anyways.
Here's the parallel I was drawing.
The Martin and Zimmerman was/is a fascinating legal case.
It's anecdotal evidence that there in fact are situations that lead to persons acting "above the law."
Did Zimmerman make Martin feel harassed, threatened or fearful by following him? Did he feel his life was in jeopardy.
If you watched that case, the defense for Zimmerman presented evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman.
At what point does the aggressor become the victim? Was Zimmerman even an aggressor even to begin with?
These are all questions that were raised in that trial.
Complexities.
I think much of the same basic questions go unanswered in this SUV vs a group of disorderly motorcyclists. A lot is still unknown. Who was the aggressor? The guy getting crushed by the 4,000lb $70k SUV?
There's too many people out there pulling out that "my life was threatened" card and expecting everyone to take them at their word.
Until we know ALL the facts, we're just speculating.
And yes, I'm including myself in that lot.
My only reason for posting is that it irritates me when I read people expressing opinion dressed as fact.
And then pissing on anyone that questions their logic.
And I like the DMF too.
But I don't like :-* from strangers. So please keep your :-* to ungeheuerself.
I am pleased to see this thread remain civil and respectful.
Quote from: ducpainter on October 02, 2013, 04:39:30 PM
I can hear the tumblers rattling.
I guess you didn't take that as a warning.
Rather than answer the slew of pm's...
we don't do legal cases...because most of them are just political bullshit...and we don't do politics.
Bringing the Zimmerman thing into this, which IMO is exactly baiting, will go nowhere other than downhill...into politics and law.
The tumblers rattling were in the lock.