I posted this on another forum but got no replies; hoping someone here may know more. Many thanks!
I keep getting the above error code (P0351) on my 2006 S2R 1000 (19K miles): Ignition Coil Circuit Malfunction, for both Coils 1 and 2. I've been checking the codes either with TuneECU or ScanM5X.
I clear the error, but it comes back. Though the bike needs tuning for sure (TB sync, etc.), it runs fairly well (after a lot of troubleshooting and basic servicing). [Except for stalling at start up, which began yesterday after I wrote this up.]
I've been told by a Ducati mechanic this might be happening because I've been doing a fair bit of work on the bike, taking out the battery at various points, and so on.
Does that seem right? I haven't really seen a direct correlation between taking the battery out and getting the error code.
I thought there was something off about the coils when I tested them with a multimeter.
On testing the primary, low voltage coils, I got 1.6 Ohm.
But I could not check the secondary, high voltage circuit. I could not get a reading with the coil cables connected, which is how I gather the test is normally done. On standard-type testing of secondary coils I get nothing, zero. In other words, I could not get any Ohm reading between the input (the smaller pins, or "pigtails") and the output (the large round plugs that connect to the cables that, in turn, go to the spark plugs). Nor of course could I get a reading from the input (small) pins to the end of the cables when the cables were attached to the coils.
I looked up the ignition coil test procedure, for which there are a bunch of youtube videos, and from what I gather, I should be able to get an Ohm reading from the smaller "input" pins (the ECU end, I guess you could call it) to the end of the coil cables (the spark plug end) ... but I don't get anything there.
On the other hand, when I check the cables alone while they are disconnected/detached from the coils, I get 4500 Ohms, i.e., JUST on the coil wires/cables alone that go to the spark plugs.
I don't know what's going on there, is this normal? Again, I couldn't reproduce what I take to be the standard coil test procedure, except for the primary coil test, and then I got a low (1.6) Ohm value - I don't know if that's what it is supposed to be. There are no tech specs anywhere I could find that say what the readings should be for the S2R1K coils - I even wrote to Beru but no response yet.
For greater clarity: for example, if you look at this video, I could reproduce the primary coil test (discussed at the 1:00 minute mark), and I get 1.6Ohms ... but I could NOT reproduce the test described at the 2:00 minute mark. I could only test the coil wires while they're detached, not while attached to the coils. And even then, I get 4500 Ohms, which seems low. SEE VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRQ45lT2d3cOR (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRQ45lT2d3cOR)
Or take this other video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVH83g9DUK8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVH83g9DUK8) ... again, I could only reproduce the first part of the test, with the lower Ohm values for the "primary" or "low voltage" coil; I could not reproduce the second part of the test, for the "secondary" or "high voltage" coil.
Any thoughts? Are the Beru coils different, or am I using the wrong test procedure?
Much appreciated!
For more clarity (not sure I explained myself well enough above), please see the attached photo.
Testing with a multimeter, I can do the test on point "A" and I get a reading of 1.6 Ohm when taking a reading between the two pins.
However, I am unable to get a reading of any kind when I place the leads on points "A" and "B" respectively, no matter how I combine the leads and/or pins. I get zero.
This of course means I also don't get any readings between points "A" and "C", where C = the tips of the coil cables (i.e., the tips that plug onto the spark plugs), when attached to the large round plugs on the coil. Again, I get zero.
Based on the coil testing procedures I've looked up, I should be able to get SOME reading between A and B, and between A and C.
BUT, if I test just "C" alone, just the coil cable when detached, I get 4500 Ohms.
I hope this clarifies.
Many thanks!
http://s288.photobucket.com/user/cityzen1/media/Beru%20Coils_zpsbv9nskct.jpg.html (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/cityzen1/media/Beru%20Coils_zpsbv9nskct.jpg.html)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll174/cityzen1/Beru%20Coils_zpsbv9nskct.jpg~original)
Do you feel/hear any missfires? Have you followed the wires to see if they're "cut" or isolation is damged?
That is a short circuit to either side of one/both of the coils; if you're not getting a reading(sorry pic did not open) on either end of coil, then "bad coil" . . .
Hoping for the best, hopefully not a faulty ECU>>> from disconnecting-connecting the battery
Thanks for responding!
I'm getting popping on deceleration, but I assumed this is because (I'm pretty sure) I'm running a tad lean and I have leaks in my exhaust at the pipe joints (I'll have to refit the decat pipes I installed and seal them up better). No other form of misfire, however.
I've checked the wiring as best as I could and did not see any problems - but I should probably check more carefully.
As I discuss I mention in a separate post, yesterday it started stalling out at start up.
Re images: I still don't know how to post photos, so sorry!
link to photo here: http://s288.photobucket.com/user/cityzen1/media/Beru%20Coils_zpsbv9nskct.jpg.html (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/cityzen1/media/Beru%20Coils_zpsbv9nskct.jpg.html)
As for ECU ... how could disconnecting battery cause it to fault? I've been 100% careful not to cross wire at any time, etc. And I'm not getting any other error codes for now (I had some old ones before but after I cleared them they did not return).
If the bike was not running and the ignition switch is off disconnecting the battery will do no harm. Disconnecting the battery while running can, but not will damage electronic parts like your computer due to voltage spikes. I can't follow what you are doing with your coil testing, plus there are no published specs from Ducati for those coils. Across the two smaller connectors should read in the area of 5ish ohms and from either smaller connector top the high tension terminal probably more than 10 ohms. These are indeed wild ass guesses. High tension wire in or out should not make a notable difference unless the wire is bad. The spark plug cap should read about 5K ohms. If you are throwing the same codes repeatedly you either have two bad coils (not likely), a wiring problem or an ECU problem (not likely). My thinking is any wires that affect both coils. I don't know how the computer determines to set a coil code. A bench test on your coils only means they are probably good since you are not stress testing them. Years ago, we used to dynamically test coils with special testers. This can still be done with an oscilloscope but it is not a common practice on bikes.
The coils can be tested on the bike quite easy on the bike with the Mathasis tester by a shop that has one. Your dealer should. A shade tree alternative is borrow a known good coil. Use on one cylinder. Code doesn't come back on the cylinder, bad coil. I would say if the wires test good just buy a set of coils, but they ain't cheap.
I think some ignition systems can sense whether the plug has fired or not by how the coil recovers. If the bike is running OK and the coils test good I wonder if the plug gap or type might be causing nuisance errors? Just a wild guess.
czen, where are you located?
why? maybe someone knows a good shop with a diag system or a dealer that can help you
I've noticed similar bogus error codes with a Centurion/VDSTS.
In general, I've only found one error code that has been valid, that was on a 748, telling me the injector driver was bad.
But I already knew that. :-\
Thanks guys, all good info!
I do have access to a reputedly decent shop now near Toronto (though I didn't all summer); I'll ask about the testing equipment and/or to double check the wiring for me as I may have missed something.
With respect to the multimeter testing, I was just trying to run the tests demonstrated in the videos I provided a link for, but I could not duplicate one part of the test; specifically, I get a zero Ohm reading on the second part of the standard test, i.e., when I test with the multimeter leads placed on point "A" (in above photo of the Beru coil) to point "B". ... I'm referring to the photo of the coil and the two terminal sides labelled as "A" and "B" because, frankly, I don't know what the proper technical names for those two parts of a coil might be (the "input" versus "output" terminals??).
But the bottom line is that I've tried to test in exactly the way I've read I should and in exactly the way shown in those two videos (and there are many more videos on the net demonstrating this test), but I'm not getting the expected result. Perhaps these Beru coils are different, I have no idea.
Anyways, thanks again!
Quote from: howie on October 08, 2015, 03:07:41 PM
... (1) Across the two smaller connectors should read in the area of 5ish ohms
(2) and from either smaller connector top the high tension terminal probably more than 10 ohms. ....
(3) The spark plug cap should read about 5K ohms.
For (1) I'm getting 1.6 Ohms.
For (2) I'm getting zero, nothing no matter how I combine the leads - that's the weird part. I also get zero if I attach the cables/wires to the high tension terminal and test from the "smaller connector" across to the spark plug cap.
For (3) I'm getting 4.5K, so that's ok - assuming we're talking about the same thing. I'm talking about taking a reading from the spark plug cap to the other side of the wire, which is the side that connects to the coils. In other words, on testing just the cable/wire by itself.
Quote from: Bill in OKC on October 08, 2015, 03:30:44 PM
I think some ignition systems can sense whether the plug has fired or not by how the coil recovers. If the bike is running OK and the coils test good I wonder if the plug gap or type might be causing nuisance errors? Just a wild guess.
Quote from: Speeddog on October 08, 2015, 04:00:56 PM
I've noticed similar bogus error codes with a Centurion/VDSTS.
In general, I've only found one error code that has been valid, that was on a 748, telling me the injector driver was bad.
But I already knew that. :-\
Interesting, makes sense.
Back to coils. 0 ohms would indicate a shorted winding. Even then, you should read something, just under spec. Primary might be right,since I don't know the spec for that coil. Plus the bike does run. 4.5 is goodnuff on the spark plug cap.
QuoteFor (2) I'm getting zero, nothing no matter how I combine the leads - that's the weird part. I also get zero if I attach the cables/wires to the high tension terminal and test from the "smaller connector" across to the spark plug cap.
Are you sure you are getting zero, not infinity?
I will check manual for specs . . . forgot I got those
Quote from: DarkMonster620 on October 09, 2015, 04:13:57 AM
I will check manual for specs . . . forgot I got those
Already looked, both in the owner's manual and the workshop manual - and there's nothing. I wrote to Beru, never heard back. Maybe there's something in the LT Snyder or the other books? (I have that on order.)
Quote from: howie on October 09, 2015, 04:10:52 AM
Are you sure you are getting zero, not infinity?
I'm testing with a digital multimeter and it's showing zero; I assume if infinity I would get some kind of error or other indication.
Many thanks for your reply; and sorry I didn't explain what I was doing with the testing very well.
You explained well, your results just don't make any sense to me. 0 is the reading for no resistance. This would mean no spark. With the wire and cap you should be reading at least 4.5K ohms since that is the resistance of the cap. Infinity would explain no reading for the cap and possibly poor running since voltage could jump a gap in the winding.
Quote from: howie on October 09, 2015, 04:34:11 AM
You explained well, your results just don't make any sense to me. 0 is the reading for no resistance. This would mean no spark. With the wire and cap you should be reading at least 4.5K ohms since that is the resistance of the cap.
I agree, it's very odd; and I've made sure to check and re-check; I'm not doing something dumb like forgetting to switch the meter to 20K, etc. It's not just odd that the bike is running (or at least it was ... see my post re stalling out) but also that BOTH coils give this result.
Im speculating here, but I wondered if it may be 1 of 2 things: Beru coils are somehow different; OR, the coils were on their way out, and I was getting a spark only because the coils' behaviour under load is different from a bench test ... in other words, possible it was providing spark even though test shows "zero" Ohms on secondary. I realize this is not likely, but I've no idea.
Here's another thing: I'm not convinced the bike has as much power as it should. People talk about these bikes like they have crazy mad power, that they can lift the front wheel off the ground if they crank the throttle hard enough on first or second gear. Now, don't get me wrong, I have zero interest in doing wheelies, but I wanted to test this and could not duplicate. (Mind you, I have recently installed a G2 "throttle tamer" for better control, but this should not make a difference at higher RPMs and anyway, I could not do it before either.)
Thanks again!
I just wrote to Beru again; let' see if I get a response this time.
If anyone has these coils on their bike (they're on more than one model), if convenient, please check them out with a multimeter.
The Ducati OEM part number is 38040101C and the Beru part number is ZS056.
Many thanks!
Dual-output coil is wired differently than one might think:
(http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/attachments/41054d1402617090-how-coil-works-dual-fire-ignition-coil_fig1.jpg)
Primary and secondary do not share any circuits.
I've checked a coil from a DS1000:
Primary resistance is 0.9 ohm.
Secondary resistance is 16.2k ohm.
Quote from: Speeddog on October 12, 2015, 11:23:43 AM
Dual-output coil is wired differently than one might think:
(http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/attachments/41054d1402617090-how-coil-works-dual-fire-ignition-coil_fig1.jpg)
Primary and secondary do not share any circuits.
I've checked a coil from a DS1000:
Primary resistance is 0.9 ohm.
Secondary resistance is 16.2k ohm.
Perfect! Thanks a bunch! That explains it: unlike other coils, the reading is not taken from point "A" to point "B" (per diagram above), but each point independently ... now my results make sense, if I've understood you correctly.
Thanks again for responding!
So I did a bit more reading on "dual output" coils, and thought I'd post this in addition to the above response by Speedog, in case it is of use to someone: if you attempt to test these specific Beru coils by taking a reading between the primary and secondary coils (between points A and B in the photo I posted) you are actually supposed to get a reading of infinite resistance. If you get anything else, the coils are bad. So actually, what was previously seemed odd to me makes sense: the coils are good, they're not supposed to have a definitive resistance value (Ohms) when tested that way. (I also mixed up infinite with zero, sorry!)
So the way to test them is to read the primary and secondary coils (points A and B in the photo) individually, and then also the caps and look for some definite value (a low value of up to 1 or maybe 2 for the primary, and much higher value in the teen thousands for secondary); then test between primary and secondary and look for infinite resistance.
The reason i was confused about this is because the instructions I read and watched on how to test coils were about a different type of coil.
At least: I hope I have it right this time.
Good discussion here: http://xs650temp.proboards.com/thread/16595/test-coil (http://xs650temp.proboards.com/thread/16595/test-coil)
Many thanks again for helping clarify this Speeddog.
New to me too.
So did you ever fix the issue with the error codes in the coils?
Quote from: SwiftTone on June 14, 2016, 08:02:04 AM
So did you ever fix the issue with the error codes in the coils?
Just getting into the new season now, so I can't say with 100% certainty, but my guess is that the error codes for the coil circuits came up due to bike stalling out, so more as a symptom of an underlying problem rather than the problem in itself. In other words, I need to make sure I resolve the stalling out issue - that's the main thing.
So what is/was causing the stalling? A few different things at once: corrosion in the wire harness causing power cut to coils; possible Idle Air Control valve (or "stepper motor") problem; or possibly a Crank Position Shaft sensor malfunction because I was getting a CPS error code also ... or maybe something else entirely, like maybe the fuel pump (but those are the most likely culprits).
I have replaced the entire/complete wire harness with a new one (due to corrosion in more than one place), installed newer (still used, but newer than mine) ignition coils, new TPS, also installed Magnecor coil cables, new relays, new spark plugs, etc. ... and bike is in the shop where they are trying to narrow down the exact cause of the random stalling/surging problems I've been having ... I'll try to post a response once we figure out if it's an IAC or CPS problem.
Some of the stuff I replaced was probably going overboard, but I learned bike had sat for a long time probably outdoors so I wanted to make sure this got truly resolved.
If, after all that, and after a Ducati trained mechanic has looked at it, I still get those error codes ... well then [bang] [bang] [bang]
Thanks for the reply. I am chasing an issue where at full throttle the bike will lose power as if it was choking at 6500rpm. At 3/4 throttle, it'll Rev to red line with no issues.
I am getting error codes p0351 and p0352 for both ignition coils.
Replaced the fuel filter, fuel system pressure is correct, did the valves.
Tested the TPS and it reads 0.39V at closed throttle and 4.20V and fully open. Is this the same reading you got as well? I also noticed that at closed throttle it reads as 3.1-3.2 degrees and 85 degrees fully open. Normal?
Quote from: SwiftTone on June 14, 2016, 08:40:17 AM
Thanks for the reply. I am chasing an issue where at full throttle the bike will lose power as if it was choking at 6500rpm. At 3/4 throttle, it'll Rev to red line with no issues.
Replaced the fuel filter, fuel system pressure is correct, did the valves.
Tested the TPS and it reads 0.39V at closed throttle and 4.20V and fully open. Is this the same reading you got as well? I also noticed that at closed throttle it reads as 3.1-3.2 degrees and 85 degrees fully open. Normal?
I was just reading your post and trying to figure out what I could contribute. I never really tested my TPS, I just replaced it since I was convinced that was the source of my problem (as turned out, TPS was not the problem ... but I thought it was because I had a weird symptom where my idle fluctuates, but is normal/stable when I unplug the TPS). I'm not sure how you tested it exactly, but if I was going to do it I would have done it off-bike and using method for testing a "potentiometer", since that's what the TPS is basically, a potentiometer.
There are videos online that show how you can test a TPS/potentiometer ... basically what you're looking for is an appropriate Ohm value corresponding to each degree turn, and if you see spikes or dips then it's malfunctioning.
Other than that, it sounds like we have somewhat different problems, since my main issue is stalling + surging + fluctuating idle. HOWEVER, I just read this one posting where the problem sounds closer to yours, and culprit turned out to be a bad CPS (or bad CPS ground). So that's another possibility you should look into.
See here: http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/ducati-monster-s-models/318769-s4rs-took-running-like-crap-2.html (http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/ducati-monster-s-models/318769-s4rs-took-running-like-crap-2.html)
Sorry to bring up an old thread.
My 07 S4Rs is also having the same cut out, surging and stalling out issue.
A local shop says bad coil code came up and should replace them. I thought strange that both coil would go at the same time, but went ahead with new coils.
Of course, after new coils problem still persist. Thinking a bad ground somewhere?
@czen - how did it go with your bike?
Quote from: axle167 on September 04, 2019, 02:16:01 PM
Sorry to bring up an old thread.
My 07 S4Rs is also having the same cut out, surging and stalling out issue.
A local shop says bad coil code came up and should replace them. I thought strange that both coil would go at the same time, but went ahead with new coils.
Of course, after new coils problem still persist. Thinking a bad ground somewhere?
@czen - how did it go with your bike?
czen hasn't been active here for close to four years. You might try pm'ing, or emailing him.
Quote from: axle167 on September 04, 2019, 02:16:01 PM
Sorry to bring up an old thread.
My 07 S4Rs is also having the same cut out, surging and stalling out issue.
A local shop says bad coil code came up and should replace them. I thought strange that both coil would go at the same time, but went ahead with new coils.
Of course, after new coils problem still persist. Thinking a bad ground somewhere?
@czen - how did it go with your bike?
Hi there - Sorry to hear you're having these troubles. And apologies for not responding sooner.
With my bike, I had a series of electrical issues (for example, ignition relays blowing, loss of power to one of the cylinders, etc.) ... I just got tired of the whole thing and ended up replacing the entire wiring harness. I also installed new (or rather, used-new) ignition coils, coil cables, etc.
I was also having issues with my Throttle Position Sensor, so I replaced that; same with the stepper motor, which was definitely not working properly. To be on the safe side, I even installed a new air temp sensor. Basically, every electrical component that could cause problems, and that was relatively easy to fix, I went ahead and replaced. I used either brand new parts or "new" used.
Obviously, I also replaced spark plugs, and other stuff like that. (About the spark plugs, I noticed I had made a mistake by writing/installing a Ducati Performance map onto my ECU. My plugs were getting badly fouled up, especially in slightly colder weather. I examined the map more carefully, and discovered that the fueling map for the "warm up" phase was all screwed up. So I just re-installed the original map, but without the O2 sensor, which I deleted.)
I also did a Throttle Body balance/snyc - I used the most comprehensive instructions provided on this site here ... I'm sure you can find them.
Anyway, the bottom line is that I did A LOT of work ... and now the bike runs pretty much perfectly (except maybe my throttle is a tad twitchy even though I have a throttle tamer installed ... may need a lube or something).
I may have missed a few steps/items from my rather comprehensive list of repairs ... I posted a complete list on one of the other forums a while back. I will try to find it and will copy/paste it here.
Note: about the possibility of there being a short ... you are right to suspect this. Even if it is not ultimately the cause of the ignition coil malfunction, any kind of short could cause issues. I find that these bikes have to be pretty much in perfect shape in order to run properly ... not much margin for error. So for example, at every start-up, the ECU needs to be initialized "properly", and a short can prevent that. In may case, I had caused a minor short when I did a tail chop and installed a new integrated tail light; I had left the old wiring harness for the old taillight without 100% properly sealing off the signal light wires with electrical tape ... so a couple of wires were slightly touching. As you can imagine, it took me forever to figure out that this little thing was causing me running problems, e.g., random stalls, etc.
Anyway, I hope this is somewhat useful to you ... sorry I don't have an easy solution. But my approach was, basically, replace as much of the electrical system as I could ... versus trying to chase down all the specific little gremlins that are causing the problems. It's a sort of a blunderbuss approach, but eventually, it worked for me. I did most of it myself, with some other stuff left to a mechanic (e.g., timing belt change, valve clearance, etc.)
Note: most recently, I installed an AntiGravity Lithium Ion battery and a new MOSFET Regulator (not that the old one was busted ... again, I just wanted to make sure everything ran well.)
Best of luck!
Cheers!
I will try to get you that list I made on the other forums, just in case you find it helpful.
Note: for a while, I also had a random-high-RPMs/high idle issue as well ... discussed here:
https://www.ducati.ms/forums/77-sport-classic/127988-high-idle.html
As you might imagine, there was a time when I seriously considered taking a sledgehammer to my bike, LOL! ;D ;D ;D
OK, SO HERE IS MY (TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION) COMPLETE LIST OF REPAIRS I DID ON MY 2006 S2R1K .... HOPE IT HELPS:
It's from 2017 and from another forum where I had requested advice on the same issues as I had done here on this forum: https://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/tech/309393-recurring-ignition-coils-error-code-p0351-both-coils-circuits-s2r1k-3.html
Maybe take a look at some of the other people who responded and who appear to have had similar issues. Again, I hope all this is of some assistance. Good luck!!!
--------------
Hi - sorry I didn't respond sooner.
I'm not getting the coil related error codes recently. Unfortunately, I'm not sure why exactly I had them in the first place.
One possibility - which I suspect - is that whenever the bike stalled out, that would cause the coil error codes to come up. In other words, the stalling would cause the coils to shut down and that would cause the error codes. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that makes sense.
My bike is also not stalling lately, so again, that makes me think the two went together.
I did a lot of electrical "repairs" on mine:
- I replaced the entire wiring harness
- I got newer (still used but newer) coils
- I got new Magnecor coil cables
- replaced the TPS (though I learned later tnere was nothing really wrong with my original one)
- replaced the CPS sensor (crank position sensor, or RPM sensor)
- cleaned out all connections I could get to with Deoxit
- replaced the IAC (idle air control valve, or stepper motor) ... there was definitely a problem with this ... it was malfunctioning
- replaced the main and ignition relays
- solved a possible shorting issue in the rear tail/license plate light
- got a new battery
- had the injectors cleaned, tested and matched
- new spark plugs
- replaced the air temp sensor with a brand new one
[I may be forgetting some things ... i did all this over 2 seasons]
.......
The bike currently runs fairly well. Not as well as I'd like it to, and not as smooth as I know it can run, but better than before.
Last season, towards the end, it was doing something weird: the idle RPMs would suddenly and randomly jump up to 3000 or more.
So far this season it has not done that, but I can't say 100% for sure it won't.
Last remaining problem, at this point, is a sort of "jerky", uneven ride: even while cruising, it sort of gently "bucks" or "lugs" or "rocks" back ... as if the fuel is being randomly cut off or maybe the clutch slipping or something. Hard to explain, but basically not a smooth ride, even at high RPMs.
I don't know why this is happening ... will do some more fixes and see. It's also possible it needs basic tuning, TB balance, etc.
Last edited by czen; 05-03-2017 at 10:14 PM.
NOTE: I had forgotten that I had replaced the Crank Position Sensor with a brand new one ... I think this step definitely helped! These sensors do, apparently, fail over time ... not often, but it does happen. My bike ran much better after I did that.
Thank you for your input!
A bit about my bike. 52,000kms or 30,000 miles with full term and open air box. These were there when I bought the bike 7 years ago.
I’ve changed the stator and upgraded to a shindgen mosfet reg rec. replaced the sprag clutch, shifter spring. These were done a few seasons ago.
Belts and valves were done at 48,000kms a couple seasons ago, I probably did a TB sync at that time.
This season i’ve only done the fork seals and replace rear signals with factory ones. Gonna double check the connections!!! Batt is a couple years old, but it tested good at a batt shop when I wanted to replace it. And now it has new coils. I’m gonna bring up your list with the tech.
The bike is parked underground and I don’t ride in rain. I don’t wash my bike much and even when I do i use little water. I do notice the last couple seasons the needles don’t always do a full sweep with the key to on. Does that mean anything??
Just came back from the tech and here's what was done.
replaced coil and the coil error code still came up.
replaced ecu with a "virgin" ecu and a three more codes came up in addition to the coil codes. These were TPS, air temp sensor, atmos pressure sensor. bike ran noticeably crappier and I suspect it's because the ecu is not tune to exhaust and open box.
revert back to my old dp ecu and now error codes are back down to the coils again. bike ran rich, but noticeably better than with the *virgin* ecu.
bike starts fine and ran with a charm [bang]
is this just a witch hunt?
In ~ 8 years, I've seen exactly one instance of a correct error code from a Ducati Diagnostic device.
It correctly identified a bad fuel injector circuit on an ECU on a 748.
Really not *that* helpful, as the bike wouldn't run on that cylinder, and I could see that the injector wasn't squirting fuel.
I've seen numerous error codes thrown on coils, always on bikes that run fine.
"... is this just a witch hunt? .."
Yeah, electrical issues can be extremely frustrating! Especially if there is more than one issue at play, it gets very hard to nail down the exact cause or causes of your issues.
I'm sure you've already heard of this, but the general rule is to start from checking for big, most obvious, most common (i.e., "simplest") potential problems and then moving on to more unusual, more exotic, rarer issues (hence, more "complicated").
Have you had any luck since your last post? Any of my experiences helpful?
About the rich running problem: have you been able to actually look at the respective maps on the old versus the "virgin" ECU? You can use Guzzidiag together with TunerPro to do that (along with other functions, like resetting the TPS, which is quite important to do every time you fiddle with stuff, especially fuelling related.)
More info here, in case you don't know already: https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=96957.0
Having a gas analyzer can also be a helpful tool, especially if you're doing stuff like balancing/synching the throttle bodies.
Anyway, best of luck again! And don't worry, it will eventually work out.
PS - By the way, just in case, have you done some basic tests, like a cylinder compression test? Doesn't sound like it is your problem, but never hurts to check.
Quote from: Speeddog on September 06, 2019, 04:44:37 PM
In ~ 8 years, I've seen exactly one instance of a correct error code from a Ducati Diagnostic device.
It correctly identified a bad fuel injector circuit on an ECU on a 748.
Really not *that* helpful, as the bike wouldn't run on that cylinder, and I could see that the injector wasn't squirting fuel.
I've seen numerous error codes thrown on coils, always on bikes that run fine.
Interesting. Any thoughts/ideas/theories as to why this would be happening? Seems rather frustrating that Ducati electrics and ECUs (or whatever
related areas that would cause excessive or inaccurate or irrelevant error codes) would be quite that finicky.
Hi - Sorry I sent this via PM already, but just thought I'd post here as well, just in case it is useful to anyone:
By the way, what did you mean when you said: "I do notice the last couple seasons the needles don’t always do a full sweep with the key to on. Does that mean anything??" ... What exactly happens?
Also, do you have the cable and the software (Guzzidiag and TunerPro) to be able to read your ECU map and do other functions? If so, I'd be interested to see what the DP map looks like, if you are able to send it to me.
In case you're not familiar with all this stuff, you can look at that link for the tutorial on how to use Guzzidiag that I posted. Also, you can get the correct cable to hook up the ECU from Lonelec. This is the kit you would need ... there are other places you can find the cables, but this is guaranteed to work:
https://www.lonelec.co.uk/Motorbike-OBD-Diagnostic-Cables/Guzzidiag-Melcodiag-Ducatidiag-Hardware/Guzzidiag-Melcodiag-3pin-Interface-Cable
Quote from: czen on September 10, 2019, 11:11:16 PM
Interesting. Any thoughts/ideas/theories as to why this would be happening? Seems rather frustrating that Ducati electrics and ECUs (or whatever
related areas that would cause excessive or inaccurate or irrelevant error codes) would be quite that finicky.
No idea.
Sorry, haven't had time to post for a while, life's other commitments.....
A big thank you to czen for all the information you've provided. I will definitely check the diag tools in your link and the fuel mapping.
to repond to this from czen:
By the way, what did you mean when you said: "I do notice the last couple seasons the needles don’t always do a full sweep with the key to on. Does that mean anything??" ... What exactly happens?
The needle would sweep half way... goes back to zero and then do a full sweep the second time around. Not sure what that means tho.
An update of what has happened. Pick up the bike from the 1st tech and rode home. Everything was fine for 20 mins and then felt the hesitation and the surge and bike finally died on the road. Tried to restart and hear the relay click - feels exactly like a dead batt. Toke the battery home for some tender charging and it took the charger overnight to give me the green light. Installed the charged battery and bike starts. Obviously the bike is not charging, so I rode it to another tech that was close by and he confirmed the stator was shot. The stator was replaced 3 years ago and the reg/rec was replaced with a shindogen mosfet a couple years back.
The 2nd tech commented that if there's not enough power to the ecu, it will throw random codes. I've ordered a new stator from electrosport for install and I've asked the 2nd tech to check for error codes after the install to see if any codes are still there. Will find out in a week.
I'm not sure if the stator was the cause or if it was a symptom of my electrical issue, but my fingers are crossed for all's well with just the stator. I don't know if the first tech check the charging system or not, but they are a reputable shop and the tech is well known for ducati's in the region.
On any vehicle with OBD a weak charging system can throw "false" trouble codes. Not really false, the incedents did occur, but due to undercharging, not the component.