Quote from: Ddan on October 22, 2013, 05:26:17 PM
He came in on lap 9

...at the end of lap 9 in a 19 lap race.

The trigger point is somewhere along pit lane so as soon as he started back down pit lane he was on lap 10.

I'm counting 9 laps first tire...10 laps second tire.

Quote from: Ddan on October 22, 2013, 05:26:17 PM
He came in on lap 9

So you're saying he had to ride 10+ laps to finish the race (total of 19 laps)....

Disagree, cause there are no 'partial' laps...Pedrosa completed lap 9 and started lap 10 in the pits during the bike swap...he didn't ride more than 19 laps in the race.  Maybe if he swapped bikes halfway around the track, but that's not what happened.

It's the same logic wrt (Rule) 2 that Emmit comments about in his article...

2. Every rider will be required to enter the pits and change to his second machine with fresh tyres at least once during the race. In normal circumstances this means that the rider must change machine only at the end of lap 9 or lap 10. (My emphasis).

That is perfectly clear. There is no misconstruing its intent. 'At the end of lap 10' is, quite simply, before you cross the line to complete lap 10. If you do not enter the pits, then you start on your 11th lap, your 10th lap having been completed.

Similar to (my beef) about TV announcers breaking baseball innings into 3rds....there's no such thing...   

By my count he completed the same number of laps on his 2nd tire as MM did on his first

Quote from: Ddan on October 22, 2013, 05:37:39 PM
By my count he completed the same number of laps on his 2nd tire as MM did on his first

...not by mine...

or Dorna's.

Unless you're counting the cool down lap.

Quote from: Ddan on October 22, 2013, 05:37:39 PM
By my count he completed the same number of laps on his 2nd tire as MM did on his first

I don't mind chancing sticking my foot in my mouth every now and again  

Nine on his first, ten on his second.  He pulled in on lap 9, changed bikes, which 'ended' lap 9 and started lap 10, and then completed a total of ten laps to finish the 19 lap race (I counted them on my fingers, usually works for me).

The reports say MM went 11 on his first tire --- he rode ten laps, kept on going, and then pitted at the end of his 11th lap - and would have gone 8 on his second, if he had finished the race, no?


This the same debate, whether the millennium was January 1, 2000 or January 1, 2001?  

Quote from: OT on October 22, 2013, 05:09:16 PM
(Rule) 3. - "No rider is permitted to make more than 10 laps..."

Seems pretty clear, even for someone who's first language isn't English.  Even though (Rule) 2 could be misconstrued, 3 makes it plainly clear, to me at least.

Actually, it is very poorly written and isn't clear at all. MM didn't complete more than 10 laps on his first rear tire...he came in at the end of lap #11, but before he completed lap #11, as the pit entrance is prior to the end of the lap. Therefore, he didn't "make more than 10 laps".

Rule 2 is the clarification, which says the rider must pit at the end of lap 9 or lap 10. MM's team apparently missed or ignored this. A well written rule doesn't need a clarifying rule though.

Like I said before, Dorna needs to hire someone with experience writing construction specifications. Race teams are like contractors...always trying to find loopholes in the rules (or specification) to gain an advantage. It's just part of the game.

Quote from: derby on October 22, 2013, 04:54:42 PM
honda, admittedly, was purposefully trying to take advantage of a perceived loophole in the rule as written. if they had asked for clarification, the loophole would've been closed.

they gambled. they lost.

Poor timing to gamble. MM basically had the championship wrapped even if he didnt win this race, now its going to go down to valencia.

Quote from: DanTheMan on October 22, 2013, 06:34:00 PM
Poor timing to gamble. MM basically had the championship wrapped even if he didnt win this race, now its going to go down to valencia.

He's still gonna win it.

Quote from: ducpainter on October 22, 2013, 06:35:19 PM
He's still gonna win it.

I think so too, but could have done it next week at honda's home track

Quote from: DanTheMan on October 22, 2013, 06:43:21 PM
I think so too, but could have done it next week at honda's home track

All part of the 'show'.

Quote from: Triple J on October 22, 2013, 06:16:54 PM
Actually, it is very poorly written and isn't clear at all. MM didn't complete more than 10 laps on his first rear tire...he came in at the end of lap #11, but before he completed lap #11, as the pit entrance is prior to the end of the lap. Therefore, he didn't "make more than 10 laps".

Rule 2 is the clarification, which says the rider must pit at the end of lap 9 or lap 10. MM's team apparently missed or ignored this. A well written rule doesn't need a clarifying rule though.

Like I said before, Dorna needs to hire someone with experience writing construction specifications. Race teams are like contractors...always trying to find loopholes in the rules (or specification) to gain an advantage. It's just part of the game.

Granted, the rule could have been properly written with one sentence.

But really, the moment after he crossed the line, completing lap 10, he goes further; he's doing more than 10 laps.

And really how will Bridgestone be able to test before hand. 1) to get ahold of a GP bike and 2) have a rider that can do the times close to the top 3.  Or will just someone on a WSBK spec bike be "close enough" to see the problems.

In the end, it was an unnecessary gamble. I would have just pit with Lorenzo. Now he goes to Motegi where the Hondas will come 1 and 2 unless they really make the beast with two backs something up. Now, if he wins and Lorenzo comes in 3rd does that give MM the championship? I understand that for Lorenzo to win it, he has to win both rounds and have MM off the podium in at least one.

Quote from: duccarlos on October 23, 2013, 04:53:59 AM
In the end, it was an unnecessary gamble. I would have just pit with Lorenzo. Now he goes to Motegi where the Hondas will come 1 and 2 unless they really make the beast with two backs something up. Now, if he wins and Lorenzo comes in 3rd does that give MM the championship? I understand that for Lorenzo to win it, he has to win both rounds and have MM off the podium in at least one.

That would put Lorenzo out of contention.

Marquez needs to score 8 more points than George.

seriously, yamaha?

http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Oct/131024penalty.htm