valve adjustment questions...

wbeck257 · February 09, 2009, 05:01:03 PM

Okay -- I'm in the middle of doing my (first) valve adjustment, this is what I've come up with so far:

         Shim   Gap
Horz.
   Exhaust
      Opening   2.85   ?
      Closing   3.1   ?
   Intake
      Opening   2.85   0.076
      Closing   3.05   0.127
Vertical
   Exhaust
      Opening   ?   0.076
      Closing   2.85   0.152
   Intake
      Opening   2.85   0.1
      Closing   3.05   0.178

A few questions:

1. On the horz. exhaust I can't get a feeler gauge in. How do I accuratley determine what shim I need, it is obviously too tight.
2. On the vert. exhaust the opener shim isn't marked at all. Is there a "standard" size that wasn't marked?
3. Do these numbers cause any concern?

clubhousemotorsports · February 09, 2009, 05:25:43 PM

Are you checking those clearances on top dead center for the head you are working on? also make sure it is on the compression stroke and not overlap.

Don't worry about the shim sizes until you have your clearances measured correctly.

No clearance on the horizontal makes no sense so I would bet you are measuring incorrectly.

wbeck257 · February 09, 2009, 05:45:12 PM

I have the mark on the transmission pulley matched with mark on the case -- and its matched in the window too.
I've tried it 4 different times too -- same results.

wbeck257 · February 09, 2009, 05:49:13 PM

Yeah -- but I'm only having problems with the horz.
The pulley is marked too at the vert. TDC -- I guess the shop that did the work did that when they did the 6k.

billg69gmc · February 09, 2009, 05:59:22 PM

I just stick my finger in the spark plug hole and feel for TDC. Then confirm with marks.

As for measuring, while most shims are marked what they are, it is no guarantee and the best way to measure those is after you actually take them off and confirm them. You can buy the measuring gauge and shims/shim set from Desmotimes and Ca Cycles. If you have your gaps, then double check those against the actual shim removed, you will pick the nearest proper shim to put back into the stack. If they measure differently, you can sharpie the REAL measurement on them in case you use them in the future. Not sure why any shim would be unmarked.

clubhousemotorsports · February 09, 2009, 07:24:17 PM

shims were never marked until recently with good reason. half of the time I measure one it is not the size listed, some times not even in the same range. That is when they are new!
shims that are in motors may have been surfaced to dial in a clearance so don't trust the numbers on them.

something does not sound right.
what model bike?

layshaft pulley should have a mark at about 7 o clock that lines up with a mark on the side cover.
if a 750/620/800/900 the horizontal should have a mark on its pulley that is about 12 o clock and lines up with a nub on the inner belt cover
vertical should have a mark on its pulley at the 9 o clock position matching a nub on its inner belt cover.

with the motor set for the layshaft pulley in alignment with the side cover. The horizontal should be at TDC NOT the vertical. check the valves on the horizontal here.
For the vertical rotate the crankshaft over so the layshaft pulley mark is at about 3 o clock and now your vertical should be at TDC compression stroke. check the vertical valves here.

wbeck257 · February 10, 2009, 02:55:47 AM

Well, first off it is a 2006 S2R 1000.

Yeah -- I know that the number on the shim probably won't match the actual size; I plan on measuring all the sims when I get them out. Just didn't know if there was a reason the shim is not marked. But for now the #'s on the shim are a good starting point...

And I'm almost 100% sure that I'm getting TDC on the horz cyl. The marking on the pulley matches with the case, and in the inspection window. I can stick a screwdriver in the spark plug hole and get the piston. I can get light in there and watch the piston move up and down and be at the top of its rotation.

I'm at TDC.

wbeck257 · February 10, 2009, 10:54:58 AM

Assumeing I'm at TDC -- is there any suggestions about openers being (way) too tight? How should I go about a new shim, guess and check?

Speeddog · February 10, 2009, 12:30:06 PM

Quote from: wbeck257 on February 10, 2009, 10:54:58 AM
Assumeing I'm at TDC -- is there any suggestions about openers being (way) too tight? How should I go about a new shim, guess and check?

Usually, if an opener is way too tight, the closer is way loose.

You can guess, or you can select the thinnest closer from the 4 you have, put that in, and you may be able to get an accurate measurement.

AndrewNS · February 10, 2009, 03:53:39 PM

I'm probably missing something here, but I don't think just having the mark on the crank pulley lined means you are at TDC on the compression stroke (which is where you should be to measure your valve clearances). You could be at TDC on the exhaust stroke just as easily, it's a 50/50 chance. I think you have to look at the marks on the cam pulleys to be sure the valve gear is lined up the right way to be sure.

If this seems like a pain to do, a lot of guys just on this forum seem to advocate just taking the belts off and spinning the cam by hand to find the best spot to measure. You gotta know how to put it back together if you do that, though.

Good Luck!

wbeck257 · February 10, 2009, 03:55:25 PM

Would it be a problem of them being too tight?
Is there something else I should look for?

My plan is to just get a few smaller shims and check against that -- everything else I am pretty sure on.

woodyracing · February 10, 2009, 03:57:19 PM

Quote from: AndrewNS on February 10, 2009, 03:53:39 PM
I'm probably missing something here, but I don't think just having the mark on the crank pulley lined means you are at TDC on the compression stroke (which is where you should be to measure your valve clearances). You could be at TDC on the exhaust stroke just as easily, it's a 50/50 chance. I think you have to look at the marks on the cam pulleys to be sure the valve gear is lined up the right way to be sure.

If this seems like a pain to do, a lot of guys just on this forum seem to advocate just taking the belts off and spinning the cam by hand to find the best spot to measure. You gotta know how to put it back together if you do that, though.

Good Luck!

it takes two revolutions of the crankshaft to turn that pulley one rotation. That dot = TDCC Horizontal
think about it, four stroke engine the camshaft has to spin once for two revolutions of the crank and the cam pulleys are all the same size...

wbeck257 · February 10, 2009, 04:00:08 PM

Quote from: AndrewNS on February 10, 2009, 03:53:39 PM
I'm probably missing something here, but I don't think just having the mark on the crank pulley lined means you are at TDC on the compression stroke (which is where you should be to measure your valve clearances). You could be at TDC on the exhaust stroke just as easily, it's a 50/50 chance. I think you have to look at the marks on the cam pulleys to be sure the valve gear is lined up the right way to be sure.

If this seems like a pain to do, a lot of guys just on this forum seem to advocate just taking the belts off and spinning the cam by hand to find the best spot to measure. You gotta know how to put it back together if you do that, though.

Good Luck!

Well, it is the way the book says to do it.

Like I said, I know I'm at TDC on the compression stroke. And just to make sure I'm not on the exhaust stroke I rotated the engine and got the same results. They .038mm feeler gauge I have just doesn't fit.

I didn't know you could do this w/ the belts off. That is fine with me, I have to take them off anyways to replace them. So if I'm reading it right I just spin the cam until I can get a good gauge in there?

woodyracing · February 10, 2009, 04:10:05 PM

hell you could pull the whole head off without too much difficulty...
also, have you considered getting a smaller feeler gauge?

wbeck257 · February 10, 2009, 04:22:23 PM

Quote from: woodyracing on February 10, 2009, 04:10:05 PM
hell you could pull the whole head off without too much difficulty...
also, have you considered getting a smaller feeler gauge?

I thought about pulling the head -- but like I said, I thought you needed the belts on there.

I'll take the belts off and try remeasuring -- but IF it comes back the same way where I can't get a feeler gauge in there, is there any damage I should be looking for, or will I be fine just getting smaller shims?

(As for smaller feeler gauges the smallest set I can find around town is .038mm...)

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